shell sink fishing boat with crew on board. (1 Viewer)

[nooleen]

I say - Shell to Shore and jail 5 more

The O'Donnnell issue is, for me, different and seperate. He is not some dilletant riot tourist or whinging luddite. I would be very uncomfortable with the notion of a company like Shell geting such a favourable deal from this state if it turned out they were at the same time waging war on one of it's citizens.

so which 5 more mayo locals would you like jailed, in particular? do you have some millward brown statistics showing which mayo inhabitants are whinging luddites and which ones are valid citizens with rights?

 

[damien]

My two cents:

I think the issue for me will come down to exactly what happened to O'Donnell and his boat.

I don't have a problem with the pipe in principle neither do I have a problem with refining ashore. I don't believe the setup is dangerous and I think any legitimate concerns the protesters had have been addressed. I don't have a problem with the nature of the deal with shell - yes it's attractive but I see the necessity of it. Based on all that I say - Shell to Shore and jail 5 more (and if the Gardai want to crack some crusty skull in the process I wouldn't get too worked up abut it).

However:

The O'Donnnell issue is, for me, different and seperate. He is not some dilletant riot tourist or whinging luddite. I would be very uncomfortable with the notion of a company like Shell geting such a favourable deal from this state if it turned out they were at the same time waging war on one of it's citizens.

My 2c:

You're a complete cunt.

 

[nooleen]

now that's what i call a grassroots argument

 

[Mormon Nailer]

My 2c:

You're a complete cunt.

I'd be disappointed if you didn't think so!

 

[Mormon Nailer]

valid citizens with rights?

Bollox.

Fahy was the elected representitve at the time.
He made the deal with Shell = We made the deal with Shell. Like it or lump it.

We have a set of law and regulations and procedures which govern the planning process. If Shell follow those procedures then they get to build same as anyone else.

What right is being taken away? Having stuff you don't like happen is not a right!

Your problem is that you have a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of how parliamentary democracy functions.

 

[AnarchoBob]

Bollox.

Fahy was the elected representitve at the time.
He made the deal with Shell = We made the deal with Shell. Like it or lump it.

BULL-SHIT.

It's dumb as fuck to make the statement that just because Fahey was the elected representative then it was the Irish public too that made a deal with Shell.

First of all for the common sense concept that not everything that an elected representative does is done in the interest of the people or with their support.

Secondly because, if we grant what you say for sake of argument, it was just a portion of people voted for Fahey and in that case it's still bullshit to say "we" but you should say "the people that voted Fahey". But given the first point I don't think that's the case either.

So yeah, you really are just talking shit.

Your problem is that you have a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of how parliamentary democracy functions.

You quite clearly have a problem too given the points above.

 

[Vinnie]

Bollox.

Fahy was the elected representitve at the time.
He made the deal with Shell = We made the deal with Shell. Like it or lump it.

You cant possbly believe that. You cant possibly believe most of what you're saying in this thread. You're just trying to wind up a bunch of people whom you reflexively dislike on account of their politics.

 

[nooleen]

Bollox.

Fahy was the elected representitve at the time.
He made the deal with Shell = We made the deal with Shell. Like it or lump it.

We have a set of law and regulations and procedures which govern the planning process. If Shell follow those procedures then they get to build same as anyone else.

What right is being taken away? Having stuff you don't like happen is not a right!

Your problem is that you have a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of how parliamentary democracy functions.

you're such a dildo. the planning only went through because of a loophole, it's widely agreed (even by irish times-reading norms) that the deal was bollox, you even said so yourself.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

You cant possbly believe that. You cant possibly believe most of what you're saying in this thread. You're just trying to wind up a bunch of people whom you reflexively dislike on account of their politics.

Yes I do.
It's how the system works whether people like it or not.

We vote.
They make laws.
If those laws are constitutional, they stand
You don't like it.
Vote some other way.

Untill we live in an anarcho syndicalist paradise, that's how it works.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

you're such a dildo. the planning only went through because of a loophole, it's widely agreed (even by irish times-reading norms) that the deal was bollox, you even said so yourself.

Yes it was a bad deal.
However now that the deal is done the same rule of law that prevents the government illegally dispossessing you, also protects Shell.
Unpalatable - perhaps
True - certainly.

 

[Vinnie]

So my only recourse to a practice that operates vaguely within the letter of the constitution but fundamentally subverts the spirit of it is to wait until the next general election and vote? That's it? Like I said, you're just winding folk up so Im not gonna engage any further.

Yes I do.
It's how the system works whether people like it or not.

We vote.
They make laws.
If those laws are constitutional, they stand
You don't like it.
Vote some other way.

Untill we live in an anarcho syndicalist paradise, that's how it works.

 

[nooleen]

the same rule of law that prevents the government illegally dispossessing you, also protects Shell.

but protects shell quite a lot more so, apparently.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

So my only recourse to a practice that operates vaguely within the letter of the constitution but fundamentally subverts the spirit of it is to wait until the next general election and vote? That's it? Like I said, you're just winding folk up so Im not gonna engage any further.

Well you tell me.
What legal recourse do you have?

 

[AnarchoBob]

See, that is the problem. The law is not always right.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

See, that is the problem. The law is not always right.

Amen.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

but protects shell quite a lot more so, apparently.

I don't think so.
It the same laws.
It's just that they have the resources necessary to adequately defend their rights.
Individuals often don't.

 

[nooleen]

you mean resources like the gardai?

 

[nooleen]

and corrupt politicians..

 

[AnarchoBob]

Ehm, if anything, my "The law is not always right" was actually a criticism to your way of thinking along the lines of "The law says that, they [Shell] acted within the law, tough shit" Nailer.

Just because Shell acted within the law (which is, by the way, quite debatable) doesn't mean they are right or that they have the right to do what they do at all.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Just because Shell acted within the law (which is, by the way, quite debatable) doesn't mean they are right or that they have the right to do what they do at all.

You are using "right" in 2 different contexts here.
Are they "right"? You say No. I disagree but so what.
Have they the "right". Absolutely they do. They are busy exercising the right as we speak.