xylophone (1 Viewer)

[Pantone247]

Cheap toy xylophone... well bought in Waltons... but y'know... it's cheap...

I can't record these... or I can, but the level is low to catch the whopping transients without clipping, then I compress it to try and get it to a decent level against the other instrumnets... and it sounds shitty...

any other twee bastards had luck tracking these?

should I be wearing more hair slides?

 

[eoinbox]

Cheap toy xylophone... well bought in Waltons... but y'know... it's cheap...

I can't record these... or I can, but the level is low to catch the whopping transients without clipping, then I compress it to try and get it to a decent level against the other instrumnets... and it sounds shitty...

any other twee bastards had luck tracking these?

should I be wearing more hair slides?

have you tried close miking it with something like a 57, and using a nice overhead or larger diaphragm condenser for the airy catch (hehe). seriously tho

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

Or a ribbon. Or use tape. Or softer mallets. Or muffle up the ones you have. Or record at 24-bit.
What kinda compressor and what attack/release settings are you using?

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

Or indeed, per above, mic it from far away. In stereo, if you're feeling real crazy.

 

[aoboa]

Cheap toy xylophone... well bought in Waltons... but y'know... it's cheap...

I can't record these... or I can, but the level is low to catch the whopping transients without clipping, then I compress it to try and get it to a decent level against the other instrumnets... and it sounds shitty...

any other twee bastards had luck tracking these?

should I be wearing more hair slides?

Nightmare!!
You kinda need the mic to be reasonably close or nearly everything after the attack will be lost in air and you just have a plinky plonky sound with no real depth.
I take it you want less of a dynamic between the attack and the tail of the sound????
I'd record it with compression on the mic channel. Attack set to zero or practically zero and release set to maybe 100ms (depending what sounds nice for the notes you're playing). Adjust ratio and threshold to suit i.e. to bring up the resonace after the attack.
Real trick will be clever EQing after recording to make it fit.

 

[Pantone247]

Nightmare!!
You kinda need the mic to be reasonably close or nearly everything after the attack will be lost in air and you just have a plinky plonky sound with no real depth.

this is exactly what's happening, using a LDC about two foot over, two foot to the left (I really thought I needed to be catching more 'room' and less 'hit' when I was at this)

I take it you want lessof a dynamic between the attack and the tail of the sound????
I'd record it with compression on the mic channel. Attack set to zero or practically zero and release set to maybe 100ms (depending what sounds nice for the notes you're playing). Adjust ratio and threshold to suit i.e. to bring up the resonace after the attack.

Yeah I guess I want less plink, and ringing lovely tone... compressing it as I did was causing a big 'whump' as the comp worked to wrestle the sound down then drag up the fade... I don't have a channel compressor, I use Blockfish or MDA's amazing mutlicomp after that fact... maybe time to bite it and look for a nanocomop or something

Real trick will be clever EQing after recording to make it fit.

the track is pretty bass heavy, big deep kick on it too... some I'm justy going for hi end sparkle rahter then any sort of body to the sound... which is cool cause the amound of metallic clank in the mids on this cheap piece of crap xylophone is sort of upsetting

what I have found, working at the low level I got down last night, it that stereo delay is my new very best friend, give it loads and the sound seems to really fill out around the other instruments... if you get me...

thanks for all help suggestions, think I might try the 57 up close, LDC aways away too... lots of LDC for ringing note, little 57 for controlable 'hit'

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

Blockfish doesn't do fast attack / release terribly well, dunno about the other one. Just use a generic compressor with adjustable attack and release to tame that shit. Maybe try a few compressors in series doing a little bit of compression each?

 

[aoboa]

The reason I say to record WITH compression is because of the envelope a xylophone hit has and because I assume you're recording digitally.

The envelope has a sharp attack and a VERY steep roll off to sustain. Digital recording sucks at low levels - you lose 1bit of depth/resolution for every 6dB of audio. So compressing afterwards doesn't really work cos you already lost all the resolution in the sustain of the xylophone hit cos in relation to the attack it's at a really low level hence low resolution. When you then compress it it just sounds shite.
If you record with compression you bring up the level of the sustain relative to the attack and get much better resolution.
This is only really a big issue if you're recording at 44.1/48K 16bit. The problem is way less of an issue when you move up to 96k 24bit.

Best work around without having to go out and buy a compressor is do what GrRrrrR said and use softer mallets and move the mic closer.

 

[Pantone247]

you pro boys should also get a big giggle out of the fact I was monitoring off my speakers while I was tracking, as a Mr MondoBrutale had my headphones...

so even I do compress I'm pulling bucet loads of bleed into the picture too...



I thought it was very Roger Moutenot of me at the time...

 

[Rogue]

Them cheap toy xylophones don't tend to have much in the 'high end sparkle' dept, they're more a plink-plink instrument: you really need a glockenspiel for what you're after i think.

Also, using softer mallets will kill the high-end anyways, soft wound mallets will kill high end, soft rubber ones may retain some more but the idea in these is generally to make them more mid-sounding and get a better blend with other mid-range instruments; sounds like the opposite of what you're after.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

how much was the xylo - under 20yoyo? mebbe a slightly more expensive one would be better? i found i got a good sound from one o them sony minidisc mikes hungover the glock (altho i too was hungover)!bing

(you heard that track didnt ya igor??)

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

Here : free vst plugins including a compressor that's a bit more tweakable than blockfish (but has its own drawbacks)

http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/classic-series.php

 

[aoboa]

You could also just double track the xylophone.
Once with hard mallets and once with soft mallets

 

[Rogue]

mmmmm... clever

 

[samhealy]

You could also just double track the xylophone.
Once with hard mallets and once with soft mallets

Good idea. Here's an extension of it:

double-track, then EQ each track to get the specific emphases you want. On the hard-mallet track, cut all the bass below, say, 1kHz. That way you can compress it without getting that nasty 'boom' on the attach. On the soft mallet track, still cut below about 100Hz, but let the low-mid come through. Give it some compression also, but not as much as the hard-mallet track. The compression on the soft-mallet track is for sustain, not level control.

Once this is done, pan one of the channels slightly left and the other slightly right. Then put a short (100Hz), subtle (20-30%) delay on each channel, with the delayed signal from each track panned to the OTHER side. This should give it a clarity and depth that it doesn't rightly deserve.

Luck, the best of.

- S

 

[kraster]

You'll have to lose the bleed/spill situation as recording things like Xylophones/Glockenspiels/Tambourines etc. need a fair bit of distance from the mic to the source. Use a Hi pass filter to cut out the low end transient information. Because these things contain a lot of unrelated harmonic information they can play havoc with how the mic hears them. The best compromise is to move the mic away from the source so some of the transient information is dispersed and less crunchy on the bottom end. A good small capsule condenser should do the trick.

 

[kraster]

Btw. Is it a Xylophone or a Glockenspiel? ie. if it's tines are made of metal then it's a glockenspiel and wood if it's a xylophone.
Sorry to be so pedantic but it has a bearing on the answer.

 

[Rogue]

Btw. Is it a Xylophone or a Glockenspiel? ie. if it's tines are made of metal then it's a glockenspiel and wood if it's a xylophone.
Sorry to be so pedantic but it has a bearing on the answer.

If he's got the same one i used to have, it's one of those cheap kids jobs with thin metal tines but sold as a xylophone. Tines are only tuned to the fundamental pitch but most of the upper partials are probably mistuned/inharmonic. Very little resonance except some high-end inharmonic partials, fundamental fades out quickly, nothing near the sustain/purity of a real glock.

 

[plug]

nothing near the sustain/purity of a real glock.

glock and load..

 

[Rogue]

hahaha! you must spread some etcetcetcetc..

percussion is for monkeys...