Words and phrases that are soooo...meh! Like meh (1 Viewer)

[Cornu Ammonis]

Are people really conflating smart with being neurodivergent? Maybe because I work in a very neuroaffirmative industry where intelligence is a given for everyone regardless of neurotype, it isn’t a thing.

 

[seanc]

I don't believe I know a single non-neurodivergent person. I guess the word has lost all meaning, if that's what you're getting at.

 

[nuke terrorist]

My only big issue with lack of understanding from mental health pros regards side affects.
A worst it was like talking to a pharma sales rep.
I have two side affects. One is feeling excessively hungry which has led to me currently being nearly two stone overweight - which is not bad going.
The second is excessive saliva - so I spit a lot when I talk. This isn't very nice and I try to not look directly at people if I'm close to them. I feel sorry for them not me.

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

I don't believe I know a single non-neurodivergent person. I guess the word has lost all meaning, if that's what you're getting at.

I guarantee you that you do and in fact probably know a few. ADHD alone is now estimated to be 1 in 20 people. Autism is a little lower. Dyslexia is 1 in 10. Dyspraxia is between 1 in 20 and 1 in 10. Lots of people are completely unaware of their neurotype, especially your generation and older where to hit the criteria for any of these usually required reaching significant clinical criteria.

I’d argue that neurodiversity has a very specific meaning and common usage among mainly neurotypical people is largely dismissive and prejudiced, like you see in heteronormative communities about LGBTQ+ terminology, or white communities about ethnics terminology or slang. It’s not that any of the words have lost all meaning, it is that they are not given the due care and respect from outsiders that they still have within their respective communities and allies. You walk into an educational, childcare, or a medical setting and neurodiversity will mean a defined list of neurotypes which may or may not require accommodations. It’s like when people call whales fish, it’s not that fish has no meaning, it’s just that some people are ignorant.

Regarding a spectrum, this is true but it doesn’t mean that everyone is a bit autistic or a bit dyslexic (no one thinks that about the latter but apparently it’s appropriate to think that way about autism?). Where the tipping point between autistic and neurotypical is, I can’t say but generally you fall on one side of the fence or the other with some degree of identifiable traits. After that, the idea of a spectrum becomes easy to see with autism ranging from having some traits that do not impact on day-to-day life to being significantly disabled. This makes it distinct from something like purely being intelligent (which does not have the potential for being disabled on its own nor does it affect other traits like sociability, sensation, or mood) or from conditions that are pure disorders like epilepsy or depression (which pretty much only introduce a disability).

 

[ann post]

It’s not that any of the words have lost all meaning, it is that they are not given the due care and respect from outsiders that they still have within their respective communities and allies. You walk into an educational, childcare, or a medical setting and neurodiversity will mean a defined list of neurotypes which may or may not require accommodations. It’s like when people call whales fish, it’s not that fish has no meaning, it’s just that some people are ignorant.

I think this is a better phrasing of what i found annoying about people just throwing the terms around and the proverbial cart has tipped in terms of meaning.

 

[magicbastarder]

I guarantee you that you do and in fact probably know a few. ADHD alone is now estimated to be 1 in 20 people. Autism is a little lower. Dyslexia is 1 in 10. Dyspraxia is between 1 in 20 and 1 in 10. Lots of people are completely unaware of their neurotype, especially your generation and older where to hit the criteria for any of these usually required reaching significant clinical criteria.

I’d argue that neurodiversity has a very specific meaning and common usage among mainly neurotypical people is largely dismissive and prejudiced, like you see in heteronormative communities about LGBTQ+ terminology, or white communities about ethnics terminology or slang. It’s not that any of the words have lost all meaning, it is that they are not given the due care and respect from outsiders that they still have within their respective communities and allies. You walk into an educational, childcare, or a medical setting and neurodiversity will mean a defined list of neurotypes which may or may not require accommodations. It’s like when people call whales fish, it’s not that fish has no meaning, it’s just that some people are ignorant.

Regarding a spectrum, this is true but it doesn’t mean that everyone is a bit autistic or a bit dyslexic (no one thinks that about the latter but apparently it’s appropriate to think that way about autism?). Where the tipping point between autistic and neurotypical is, I can’t say but generally you fall on one side of the fence or the other with some degree of identifiable traits. After that, the idea of a spectrum becomes easy to see with autism ranging from having some traits that do not impact on day-to-day life to being significantly disabled. This makes it distinct from something like purely being intelligent (which does not have the potential for being disabled on its own nor does it affect other traits like sociability, sensation, or mood) or from conditions that are pure disorders like epilepsy or depression (which pretty much only introduce a disability).

just in case you misread him - he said "I don't believe I know a single non-neurodivergent person."
i think you answered as if he'd said 'a single neurodivergent person'?

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

just in case you misread him - he said "I don't believe I know a single non-neurodivergent person."
i think you answered as if he'd said 'a single neurodivergent person'?

I did, completely missed the non. I feel my reply still stands though as the vast majority of people are not neurodivergent so Sean knows plenty of them.

And if anyone doubts that neurotypical is still a thing and neurodiversity describes everyone or everyone is a bit autistic/ADHD/etc., try engaging with any organisation or hierarchy as a neurodivergent individual. Societal rules in general are calibrated for neurotypical people at the exclusion of neurodivergent traits. We say “The neurotypicals are at it again” in this house because so much what is taken for socially or professionally acceptable is calibrated for a neurotypical mindset.

Case in point my wife went on a recruitment training day for a large state organisation and the trainers were pointing out lots of neurodivergent behaviours as things to mark applicants down on: avoiding eye contact, fidgeting, being too direct, etc. None of these are problematic behaviours or an issue for performing a job but they are not neurotypical so they’re policed.

Lighting, ambient music, and heating are frequently a problem for those with neurodivergent traits. Shops, offices, waiting rooms, public transport, etc. are generally a challenge in some way and that’s why quiet hours started becoming a thing. You might find the supermarket to be a bit much if you’re neurotypical, I break into a sweat in them. I can’t do pubs without getting a migraine, I used to put it down to drink but I realised it was small talk.

Sexuality, gender and relationships are far more likely to be heteronormative among neurotypical people - the overlap between neurodivergence and things like being trans, being queer, being polyamorous, and kink is huge. And these are all treated as being taboo or transgressive by neurotypical standards. Living as neurodivergent in a neurotypical world is frequently a bewildering, stressful, and unpredictable experience.

 

[UnicronUnicron is verified member.]

Sexuality, gender and relationships are far more likely to be heteronormative among neurotypical people - the overlap between neurodivergence and things like being trans, being queer, being polyamorous, and kink is huge. And these are all treated as being taboo or transgressive by neurotypical standards. Living as neurodivergent in a neurotypical world is frequently a bewildering, stressful, and unpredictable experience.

"We are living in a neurotypical world and I am a spicy brained girl."

 

[UnicronUnicron is verified member.]

My own experience for what it's worth. My nephew has an ASD, was diagnosed about 10 years ago. I'd been kicking the tyres on the idea that I might be autistic for a while but I'd never done anything about it but I recognised some traits in myself that are typically found in autistic people. When he got his diagnosis I talked to my GP about it. Partly curiosity but also I thought that maybe if we both were he might find it easier to navigate life and understand it/himself better if he could frame it in terms of "Uncle Ian is a bit like me." I did recognise some of his behaviours as similar to mine at a young age.

Anyway, was sent for an "assessment" which was basically an interview with a very young doctor for an hour or so and it felt like she was asking questions off a clipboard. At the end it she went "well I'm not sure if you're autistic but you might have depression, would you like some drugs for that?" I found it a pretty unsatisfying experience, not because I didn't get a diagnosis I was thinking might be applicable (I certainly didn't need anyone to tell me I might be depressed) but because it felt very cursory.

I've done nothing to follow up since. My nephew had been getting good educational support and is thriving. My life has never been more manageable and really it doesn't matter what I am or what I have. I try to think of myself in terms of the entirety of myself in total and not a set of aspects.

I would say that in terms of my mental health or my neurotype or whatever what's had the greatest negative impact on my life isn't depression or where I may or may not be on the spectrum but that I operate on a pretty elevated level of anxiety all the time and I find it hard to switch my brain off.

 

[pete]

I've never done anything official or talked to a doctor but i've done the online questionnaires/surveys and, well... surprise? Although most of them seem phrased in such a way that they seem heavily weighted towards providing a confirmation... and a link to further services.

 

[magicbastarder]

yeah, i've got certain traits that tick boxes, but i would gain nothing from seeking anything official.

well, a friend is a clinical psychologist and we've laughed about some of those traits so i'm taking that as about as official as i'll go.

 

[Frank Discussions]

Influencer, outlier, multiplier

 

[ann post]

I think this is a better phrasing of what i found annoying about people just throwing the terms around and the proverbial cart has tipped in terms of meaning.

If there are more divergents than typical, divergent becomes typical

Majority of Britons may now be identifying themselves as neurodivergent, expert says

More people either seeking medical diagnoses for conditions like autism, dyslexia or dyspraxia, or even self-diagnosing, as a result of decreased stigma, expert explains

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Cormcolash]

Back when I was in school they all just would have been called gay

 

[magicbastarder]

Chris packham program about ADHD just started on bbc2

 

[magicbastarder]

we watched the second of those chris packham programs last night (about dyslexia last night); they're good, but not great.
the gist of the programs is he talks to two different people about their experiences dealing with a particular neurodivergence, and then get some crack filmmakers to make a short video about what it's like to be them, to show friends and family. it's the latter where it falls down for the viewer; it's very much (by definition) for the subject and their friends and family, and it's not that engaging really. the first half of the programs is usually much better.

 

[Cormcolash]

Sounds really wild

 

[seanc]

Elsewhere on these pages I see that I wrote "thought" when I meant "taught". This exactly the thing that would annoy me, and I'm the one who did it.

Other examples include "wander" for "wonder" (you're lowering the tone FB with your wandering, Dave!)
"Should of" for "should have" (you're a teacher, Kate!)

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

Elsewhere on these pages I see that I wrote "thought" when I meant "taught". This exactly the thing that would annoy me, and I'm the one who did it.

Other examples include "wander" for "wonder" (you're lowering the tone FB with your wandering, Dave!)
"Should have" for "should have" (you're a teacher, Kate!)

I taut something was off.

 

[pete]

i tort so too