US Presidential Elections 2008 (2 Viewers)

[Gambra]

Suppose this thread should be started up with the Iowa caucuses tonight. Will Clinton or Obama win out? Almost certain that it'll be Huckabee for the Republicans though. Overall I'll lay a bet on Clinton winning the Presidency.

 

[muffin]

i think john edwards might edge out clinton altogether and it'll be between him and obama. I saw a thing last week of him in some middle america town and they were loving him. It was actually quite funny. they were talking about the need for change and the interviewer asked them what could be a bigger change than a black man or a woman. they just looked stunned and said 'but his policies are different

 

[flashback]

I am now pretty anti Hillary.
A while back I was thinking she was the best person for the job, but now I would put her at... I dunno, fourth.
I would like to see Obama get the nomination, I think he can win. I also think Hilary can screw it up. Kucinich is the guy that I actually agree with on almost all points but he wont get it, and Edwards is more progressive and a lot less hawkish than Clinton. He would be better on foreign affairs.

Having said that, I think Hilary would be a better president than Bill, if she gets it. Bill just looks good because there is a clown there now. Bill was not really that good at all though.

If Guiliani gets it... I dunno. I dont think I could deal with that. I think that might be the sign that I need to leave. Totally corrupt, fascist, and in bed with more dirty people than you can imagine. Basically *all* of his people have been shown to be dirty. Guiliani is the direct replacement for the Bush administration.
Its a vote for what Bush stands for basically.

Huckabee. Jesus. Oh man. US run by a southern baptist minister.
It would be better than Guiliani I suppose.
Romney. A Mormon. Probably slightly better than Huckabee. Slightly.
McCain would be my pick out of that lot, although he is not really the greatest.

I really would like to see Obama get it though. It would be the best message that the US could give out to the rest of the world that they fucked up, and they know it, and they want to give making it better a go.

And Guiliani would be the worst.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Huckabee seems slightly dopey. He had no idea whan questions about the NIE thing on Iran and he's after making a bit of a gaffe today over a planned appearance on Jay Lenno - he didn't know he would have the screen writers guild picket to attend. Not reassuring by any means.

I haven't heard Obama speak much - I don't think I could tell you much about what he is for or against. He certainly does seem to have charisma.

I like Richardson - I've heard him interiewed a couple of times - he's fairly straight talking - kind of like a less truculent BIFFO.

Hilary I can't figure out at all - I get the impression she tries to be all things to all people and is being super carefull not to aelienate anyone - surely there is plently of thme for that after you nail down the Democratic nomination. I can't see the point of trying to keep the hawks onside even before you have the democratic nom.

 

[broken arm]

four more years four moe yeas

 

[flashback]

Huckabee seems slightly dopey. He had no idea whan questions about the NIE thing on Iran and he's after making a bit of a gaffe today over a planned appearance on Jay Lenno - he didn't know he would have the screen writers guild picket to attend. Not reassuring by any means.

I haven't heard Obama speak much - I don't think I could tell you much about what he is for or against. He certainly does seem to have charisma.

I like Richardson - I've heard him interiewed a couple of times - he's fairly straight talking - kind of like a less truculent BIFFO.

Hilary I can't figure out at all - I get the impression she tries to be all things to all people and is being super carefull not to aelienate anyone - surely there is plently of thme for that after you nail down the Democratic nomination. I can't see the point of trying to keep the hawks onside even before you have the democratic nom.

I know what you mean about Huckabee. I sort of get the feeling that he doesnt quite know what he stands for on a lot of things. He certainly wont tell anyone unless the badger the shit out of him for info.

Richardson... I dunno who he is. Richardson?

Obama is an amazing speaker. Far far far and away the best speaker of the lot of them. Good looking. Obviously very smart, very capable, everyone who says he has no experience, he does, he has plenty of political experience. A hell of a lot more than Georgey boy. The only thing about him, the only thing that worries me, is that he might be a little plastic, and people might be able to play him to some extent. I dont know though. He is a seriously clever, and canny guy.

Fucking Hilary. I mean, she is screwing it up. She is trying to be inoffensive. She is trying not to lose it. She has her 11 men lined up in front of the goal, the same way that tosser Gore did. Basically she is going to screw it up. She already has.
She is desperate for the affections of the ultra conservative douche bags in the US, but the thing is, right now, she doesn't need them. Right now, things are swinging away from ultra conservative douche bags, to slightly less conservative douche bags.
Certain men are going to hate her. This will never change. She is a woman. Certain men hate woman.


But, here you see the huge difference in Hilary and Obama. Certain people hate blacks, but Obama is ignoring being black. He is trying to be president.

Hilary is trying to ameliorate being a woman so hard she has forgotten that she is going for president, and that should be where her goal is, not trying to get misogynistic dickheads to realise the error of their ways. Because, it wont happen. She is trying to win those shit heads over, and its costing her all the normal people's votes.

That says two very bad things about her.
Be a woman. Do your job.
Obama is not out with the mercury soap trying to not be black, he is getting down to business.

Christ. It would be a beautiful thing if he won.
I would cry I think.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

this lad

 

[Mormon Nailer]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLW_GaQh2XU&feature=user"]Here[/ame] is is on Pakistan. Can you imaging W. being capiable of discussing the issue in this manner

 

[Wobbler]

I reckon Guiliani can be written off anyway. Mc Cain seems to be outside bet. He seems the best of a bad republican lot. I can't decide which would be the worst for the world, Romney or Huckabee. It does seem quitle likely that the republican candidate will be arguably worse than Bush.

I'm still undecided on Hilary. I'd love to see Obama or Edwards get it. I think it's a real opportunity for America and therefore the rest of the world. I'm not sure if Edwards is strong enough and I'm not sure if Obama is white enough. Still, that mightn't make too much of a difference.

 

[broken arm]

Here is is on Pakistan. Can you imaging W. being capiable of discussing the issue in this manner

who is this guy? does he stand a chance?

 

[Gambra]

Here is is on Pakistan. Can you imaging W. being capiable of discussing the issue in this manner

Stands about as much chance as Ron Paul.

RON PAUL!!

 

[plug]

Having said that, I think Hilary would be a better president than Bill, if she gets it. Bill just looks good because there is a clown there now. Bill was not really that good at all though.

I'm reminded of this article:

http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=449

 

[flashback]

Here is is on Pakistan. Can you imaging W. being capiable of discussing the issue in this manner

Oh that lad. I dont think he is in the running.
I have heard him shiteing on about a couple of things.
That clip, that you stuck in there, I think that is pretty telling.
He wants Musharaf to step aside because of the assasination? Gobshite. That's the absolute worst thing he could do.
Set up an "intererum govt of technocrats"? Gobshite. No.
A lot of Pakistanis hate Musharaf? Duuh. Yeah. Pakistan, and Afghanistan are not real countries. They are lines on maps, within which tribes live.

Basically every thing he says sounds like shite to me.
"Its almost been confirmed that Al Qaeda are responsible" HA HA HA HA HA.
Almost. JFK was almost not assassinated.

He actually says "Musharaf is not doing our bidding".
Amazing.

Musharaf has an almost un-doable job. He says he understands the area, but everything else he says shows he doesn't.



"We're the ones with the power here"
"We're the ones who are the honest broker here".
Fairy pixie land stuff.

These are small... but the ones out there are far away.

 

[flashback]

Sorry. I just have to go back to that quote, "Musharaf is not doing our bidding".

I know its cool to slag the US, and so on. But, it does have certain things going for it, I live here, I try to look at it in a favorable light. I mean, I try to.

But, there is a lot of times I sort of want to explain to them... in a letter maybe, like

Dear United States,
Attached onto your country is a planet. On that planet other countries exist, and people actually live in these other countries.
Now, here's the tricky bit, so pay attention:
Not all of these people's number one priority is your well being.

I know this comes as a bit of a shock, but believe it or not, its almost certainly true.


Kay.
Thanks.
Bye.



An enormous amount of Americans think that the world's job is looking after them. And if they are not looking after them, its sour grapes they are just jealous. Also that more or less every single person in the world wants to come to America.

Also that the US is free.
Also that the US is a democracy.

The US could be worse though. It could be China.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

who is this guy? does he stand a chance?

No
Smowballs

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Oh that lad. I dont think he is in the running.
I have heard him shiteing on about a couple of things.
That clip, that you stuck in there, I think that is pretty telling.
He wants Musharaf to step aside because of the assasination? Gobshite. That's the absolute worst thing he could do.
Set up an "intererum govt of technocrats"? Gobshite. No.
A lot of Pakistanis hate Musharaf? Duuh. Yeah. Pakistan, and Afghanistan are not real countries. They are lines on maps, within which tribes live.

Basically every thing he says sounds like shite to me.
"Its almost been confirmed that Al Qaeda are responsible" HA HA HA HA HA.
Almost. JFK was almost not assassinated.

He actually says "Musharaf is not doing our bidding".
Amazing.

Musharaf has an almost un-doable job. He says he understands the area, but everything else he says shows he doesn't.



"We're the ones with the power here"
"We're the ones who are the honest broker here".
Fairy pixie land stuff.

These are small... but the ones out there are far away.

It was more how assured and well briefed he was - government of techncrats sounds like a recipe for disaster to me as well.

 

[jane]

Flashback, I agree with you about Kucinich, and also about him not really standing a chance. And it's for the same reason he got into so much trouble when he was mayor of Cleveland even though it turned out he was right and he was vindicated, but too little too late.

Basically, all the cities were selling off their utility companies for short-term gain. He took a long view and fought against it and won but was absolutely reamed for it politically. When the selloff turned disastrous for everyone else, people turned around and were like, "Oh, hey, you were right. Fancy that."

So people don't necessarily see what sense he makes because he takes a long view, while others make a lot of short-term promises. Even if people see the logic in some of it, to hold him up against others, they see more benefit in the short term in voting for someone else. Even if he could get in, which is never gonna happen, he would be a one-term president because people wouldn't see as much immediate benefit as they want.

I think Hilary is definitely trying to be all things to all people, which isn't cool. And yeah, you're not gonna win over the misogynists. Argue and fight with them when it's time to, but this isn't the time. The majority of people are not even making an issue of her gender, which is something I wish she recognised a bit more fully. The one thing that irks a few people is the 'overfamiliarity' and people referring to her as Hilary as opposed to Clinton. But I think that is more to do with the fact that when most of us hear 'Clinton' we immediately assume it's Bill. Apart from that, there hasn't been as much discussion as there would have been ten years ago.

Obama is WAY more decisive and stands his ground. He seems to have more integrity, and I wish candidates would also see that there are a lot of these 'good, hardworking people' who value integrity much more highly than they get credit for. Swing voters aren't swing voters because they don't care, a lot of them want to vote for someone with a backbone and some good sense.

If everyone had integrity, we wouldn't need political parties at all.

Giuliani is FUCKING SCARY SCARY SCARY MAN. He scares the fuck out of me more than anyone else. Because how did Giuliani clean up Manhattan? He fucking drove the poor people out to the fringes and to the outer boroughs, and lots of people thought, "Wow, New York is safe again" which means "New York is safe for the monied upper middle classes because there are fewer unsightly homeless pricks". What would he do as president? Move all the poor people to Alaska? Wouldn't put it past him, you know. He was a terribly frightening mayor, and all of a sudden, he stood on a pile of rubble on September 11th and told everyone to go shopping, and he's a hero.

Can I also point out that I have it on good authority that the reason so many firefighters died in the WTC is because he refused to provide them with communications equipment? The police force got it (see above bit about the poor folk) but they kept asking and begging and they got squat. As a result, many more firefighters died than would have if they had proper equipment and had been able to develop a proper management strategy.

OMG ROMNEY. Fucking hell. But it is worth mentioning that under his administration in MAssachusetts, gay marriage was legalised and health care was pretty much socialised. These were certainly not his idea nor were they his favourite policies, but as governor, he did sometimes listen to constituents rather than trying to impose statewide Mormonism, which is often forgotten when people choose their politicians.

I really need to start paying closer attention to the race, but I feel so pessimistic about the state of American politics that I find it difficult.

 

[jane]

Stands about as much chance as Ron Paul.

RON PAUL!!

Ron Paul bad. I'm not overlooking that he's promised to overturn Roe V Wade. I'm suspicious of the fact that he stands for 'less intrusive government' and wants to ban abortion nationally, but not control who owns a gun. Opponents of gun control generally argue (I don't know if he does) that people who want a gun will buy it, and criminals will do it anyway, so over-controlling them just drives the trade underground and more people die. They generally argue from a position that illegal gun ownership is more dangerous, and they have a point because the reality is that yes, you're probably more likely to buy a gun illegally if you plan to use it on someone. I'm not saying I
agree with them, but while I wish we lived in a world without guns, they exist and you can just ban them totally. Same with his anti-war-on-drugs thing. And that just doesn't fit with his views on abortion, in that banning it will not stop abortions, it will increase the number of women -- mostly young and poor -- who will die from botched procedures. Fuck that sort of hipocrisy. Some redneck prick can be trusted with a semi-automatic, and I can't be trusted with my own reproductive system? Nice fucking policies.

People like to overlook an abortion stance, but really, I don't care if someone hates abortion, that's fine. It's whether they acknowledge the reality that it will happen anyway, and it's better to keep people safe and prevent the need for abortions in the first place, than to ban it and put people's lives at risk for the sake of a few votes. It's indicative of how they deal with realities. How come he takes a reality-based stance on one thing and not another? Why is a redneck's right to own a gun somehow a given because government should stay out of our business, and yet my right to decide when I have kids is actually not up to me at all? Doesn't make sense.

Like McCain. McCain bad. McCain is about as liberal as Michael McDowell. Most of what people know about him is that he was critical of the war and he supports a less-than-insane immigration bill (although mostly in terms of Irish people, who are safe and white and hey, "I'm IRISH!"). But really, he's extremely right-wing.

Huckabee bad.

Fred Thompson? OHSOBAD.

Anyone who wants to overturn Roe V Wade is not acknowledging what happens when abortion is made illegal. It's not like here, where you can go to England (not that that's ideal). It's already easier to get to England from Ireland than to get from southern Alabama to Birmingham, to the only Planned Parenthood clinic that still does abortions). Offering to overturn Roe v Wade is pretty much saying "I will trade the lives of young, frightened poor women for your vote, thanks very much."

 

[flashback]

I really need to start paying closer attention to the race, but I feel so pessimistic about the state of American politics that I find it difficult.

I used to sort of jolly myself along with "ah sure, it can't get any worse can it?? ha ha ha ha".
But... like Guialini.



Oh. Oh right. It possibly could get worse. Heh. ha. sob.
Huckabee is close though. He gets off far too lightly, because... well, he is not Guiliani. Or Bush. That doesn't automatically make him not a cunt. He still is a cunt. Make no mistake.


Kucinich is actually a good guy. So is Obama I feel. I would take Kucinich over Obama though.
Unfortunately this country is not even remotely a democracy, or even makes any attempt at being one. So, people wont have chance to vote for him.

So, Obama vrs Clinton?
Christ. I really dont like Clinton. I'd almost prefer McCain.

She'll probably win.
Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.


edit I seem to have screwed up my text formatting there. Sorry.

 

[Gambra]

Ron Paul bad.

Sorry o ignore the rest of your post but Ron Paul is very very very bad. I was more taking the piss out of the web's obsession with the man.