Unpopular Opinions (1 Viewer)

[ann post]

I think one can agree about the importance of folk music and traditions in memorialising past resistance, and still point out that the Wolfe tones are a pretty one dimensional and sentimental.

One?

Anywhooo

I just didn't think the half baked comment was fair - mostly on the basis that I think that sticking to one thing has helped to pass the songs along to another generation. Who is comparable from the era with the same social impact?

Spoiler: spoiler

Speaking of the black and tans a few years back i was on special ops to put up gravestones in a non legal graveyard in the middle of nowhere for the aunts/grandaunts who were cot deaths (not allowed in the regular graveyard because they weren't christened - my great grandfather and grandfather had the task of actually digging the graves by night and sending them off) - one of the graves in that graveyard was (leaving out the name) entirely marked with 'shot by the black and tans' - because of the times that were in it could also not be buried in a regular graveyard - quite a thing to see

 

[JohnnyRaz]

One?

Anywhooo

I just didn't think the half baked comment was fair - mostly on the basis that I think that sticking to one thing has helped to pass the songs along to another generation. Who is comparable from the era with the same social impact?

Spoiler: spoiler

Speaking of the black and tans a few years back i was on special ops to put up gravestones in a non legal graveyard in the middle of nowhere for the aunts/grandaunts who were cot deaths (not allowed in the regular graveyard because they weren't christened - my great grandfather and grandfather had the task of actually digging the graves by night and sending them off) - one of the graves in that graveyard was (leaving out the name) entirely marked with 'shot by the black and tans' - because of the times that were in it could also not be buried in a regular graveyard - quite a thing to see

Half baked comment?

One?

Anywhooo

I just didn't think the half baked comment was fair - mostly on the basis that I think that sticking to one thing has helped to pass the songs along to another generation. Who is comparable from the era with the same social impact?

Spoiler: spoiler

Speaking of the black and tans a few years back i was on special ops to put up gravestones in a non legal graveyard in the middle of nowhere for the aunts/grandaunts who were cot deaths (not allowed in the regular graveyard because they weren't christened - my great grandfather and grandfather had the task of actually digging the graves by night and sending them off) - one of the graves in that graveyard was (leaving out the name) entirely marked with 'shot by the black and tans' - because of the times that were in it could also not be buried in a regular graveyard - quite a thing to see

you’re initial contention was that there were no bar stool republicans in the 60s.

You’ve moved since then to the view of the Wolfe tones as some kind of keepers of the flame.. which maybe there are to some

if you want a political Irish folk singer who’s had a social & musical impact in his day and remains popular:
Christy Moore


Anyways.

 

[Kermit McDermott]

I see a van around the town where I am with "the druids" on the side of it.
They do the rebel songs as well...... I think.

 

[ann post]

Half baked comment?

you’re initial contention was that there were no bar stool republicans in the 60s.

You’ve moved since then to the view of the Wolfe tones as some kind of keepers of the flame.. which maybe there are to some

You said they were half baked pretty much:

bottom of the barrel of the 60s/70s ballad boom musically, who found their niche amongst barstool republicans everywhere.

It would be fucking hard to be barstool republican in the 60s/70s in all reality. As i said that came later - they just packed out electric picnic on a not tiny stage to young people. That is probably flame keeping yes. Christy moore is sentimental, folks is sentimental, punk is very sentimental.

 

[seanc]

I never liked the Wolfe Tones. It was just liked by people who thought the IRA are brilliant and English people are pricks. But they still like soccerball and Oasis. Because Oasis are Irish of course.

I saw them once, 2002(?) in that place that became a Stringfellows soon after, though it was a strip club at the time. Embarrassing rabble rousing. One of the techs told me, after the singer said his usual jingoistic bit and the crowd roared, all 15 of them, he looked sidestage to my man and rolled his eyes and shook his head.

I was amazed when I finally found Planxty and indeed Damo.

I have a braoder complaint about Irish history as a whole being co-opted by a small group of ignorant murdering hypocritical racist cunts. Wolfe Tones are part of that. Less so nowadays I guess, but still.

 

[Cormcolash]

Wolfe Tones have a few great tunes and then a load of who gives a fuck tunes - but the few great ones are what they earned the living off and what still brings the crowds, just look at EP.
A lot of people who love that stuff are kind of just saps though, like I find it funny and all, but that's the thing, the tunes are good for a good laugh, they're hardly a good basis for a United Ireland.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

You said they were half baked pretty much:



It would be fucking hard to be barstool republican in the 60s/70s in all reality. As i said that came later - they just packed out electric picnic on a not tiny stage to young people. That is probably flame keeping yes. Christy moore is sentimental, folks is sentimental, punk is very sentimental.

It depends on how you define barstool republican, for me it’s someone who’s level of engagement is belting out the slogans, singing 4 green fields, then staggering home considering their patriotic duty done. There were less of those proportionally then, but there were still plenty in the south at lest

there were better and more interesting folk acts around then and now imho, many of whom are or would be political


I think we’re agreed on sentimentality though

 

[Kermit McDermott]

The Wolfe Tones announce 3Arena gig after record-breaking Electric Picnic turnout

The Wolfe Tones have announced a gig in the 3Arena after setting record attendance numbers at Electric Picnic last weekend.

www.independent.ie

 

[nuke terrorist]

my father loves The Wolfe Tones. He just ignores the IRA stuff.
Streets of NY got to #1 in Ireland in 1981 and My Heart is in Ireland was a rival to Fields of Athenry in its day but it's popularity hasn't sustained.

Take ''OOH AAH UP THE 'RA'' out of The Celtic Symphony it's a pretty harmless tune loved by soccer fans.
My nephew in his 20's likes rap, stadium DJs and The Wolfe Tones - yeah, he's a Celtic fan.
here's the video from 1989(?) at Celtic Park.

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This is hilarious - This is happening on the estate of an old gentry family - instant republican cred!

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I hated anything even remotely sectarian when I was in my 20s or 30s and still think a small minority of Celtic fans are happy to be dragged down to Rangers' level.
The Wolfe Tones really are not anything to worry about and maybe it is just our parents generation music being taken up my unhip kids that bothers folks.

About 20 years ago a local family were having a party at a pub 'cause one of them was going away.
They played The Celtic Symphony and the family all started shouting along and they didn't notice that a lot of folks in the pub thought it was weird a Protestant family were singing it.
Why they were associating Bogger Protestants from co. Tipperary with Unionism (bizarre idea) and struck me as a strange perception to have.

Here's Brendan Grace's piss take of My Heart Is In Ireland. Also very famous in its day...
''I hear that my kidney's are somewhere in Sydney...''

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[nuke terrorist]

The Fields of Athenry is an awful excuse for a song - Unless it's amended and sung at sports matches e.g. '' The Fields of Lansdowne Road''.

A decent national anthem would welcome too - ''OH DANNY BHOY!"

 

[Kermit McDermott]

I thought there had been a mix up with some rapper called....Wulf tonez,
who raps about bitches & hoes, & NFTs & Bit coin & being in da cluuub.....but no. its the wolfetones.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

I thought there had been a mix up with some rapper called....Wulf tonez,
who raps about bitches & hoes, & NFTs & Bit coin & being in da cluuub.....but no. its the wolfetones.

I think its TONEzWULF you're thinking of.
he's actually the nephew of one of the guys out of Aidswank

 

[JohnnyRaz]

The Fields of Athenry is an awful excuse for a song

no argument there.
there was definitely a pretty awful stream of folk or folkish songs in the late 70s/80s that were very popular.

a lot of them had the vaguely elevator music phil coulter type arrangements (I may be dissing phil coulter unfairly here - but I think of him when I hear these)

fields of athenry
flight of earls
grace
any number of foster and allen songs
streets of new york

 

[egg_]

The Fields of Athenry is an awful excuse for a song

Written in the 80s about something that happened ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY years before. As if we had nothing more recent to worry about

The melody is very good though, and it's easy to play, and would I hesitate for even one second before playing it to a pub full of drunk Irish-Americans? Would I fuck

 

[nuke terrorist]

Iwas li

no argument there.
there was definitely a pretty awful stream of folk or folkish songs in the late 70s/80s that were very popular.

a lot of them had the vaguely elevator music phil coulter type arrangements (I may be dissing phil coulter unfairly here - but I think of him when I hear these)

fields of athenry
flight of earls
grace
any number of foster and allen songs
streets of new york

Flight of Earls - ''Our best asset is our best export tooo...'' (emigration).

 

[egg_]

These days I've come to think that the existence of a repertoire of songs that pretty much everyone in the country knows the chorus of, and is willing to sing along with, is one of the cornerstones of Irish culture, and that is actually something to celebrate

 

[nuke terrorist]

Written in the 80s about something that happened ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY years before. As if we had nothing more recent to worry about.

it was this attitude that let Haughey, the church etc. run riot.
I never get this stuff about going on about things that happened over 100 years ago. Really self defeating

 

[JohnnyRaz]

Iwas li

Flight of Earls - ''Our best asset is our best export tooo...'' (emigration).

it was a powerful song lyrically - but very much in the style of the others musicallt

''another bloody flight of earls''

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

The Wolfe Tones

These days I've come to think that the existence of a repertoire of songs that pretty much everyone in the country knows the chorus of, and is willing to sing along with, is one of the cornerstones of Irish culture, and that is actually something to celebrate

Not sure I agree with this. The Fields of Athenry is possibly the worst song in the world and sing-alongs are also abhorrent.

 

[egg_]

The Fields of Athenry is possibly the worst song in the world and sing-alongs are also abhorrent.

I was playing bass in a bar band at day 2 of a Canadian wedding in rural Co. Meath, jamming out Sweet Caroline and everyone in the place grinning from ear to ear and singing their heads off, and I realised - those peoples' joy is real. As real as any joy I ever felt. I've seen singalongs differently since