Troublemakers of the world - we bid you welcome (1 Viewer)

[Corm]

Spread points before giving yada yada yada..
What do you do when even the Irish punks there are elitist??

Wow, there's a whole lot of boo-hoo going on here. Was that me, Ian or Dee you're talking about?

Anyway, it's funny that this so quickly turned into a "they won't let me into their social club/I don't want to be in their stupid club anyway" argument.

Ungdomhuset is one of the only autonmous centres still going in Europe, an amazing place with so much worth. The city and authorities have decided that it doesn't matter what promises were made, what the people of the city think, or that it provides a valuable amenity for a huge amount of people. They don't give a fuck. And the people who love the place have decided they're not going to let themselves be kicked out like that. This means there'll probably be a riot, with a lot of people involved.

As for the other crap... A lot of Danish people are pretty unfriendly when you first meet them, if you make a bit of an effort then you'll end up making friends. By the time I moved away from there I was better friends with the people at the nightclub where I worked, the hardcore kids & spiky punks, etc than I was with the crusties, and a lot of those people I became friends with didn't talk to me for ages because of how I looked...until I made the effort to talk to them.

I suppose you'll tell me you never judge people on how they look?

All people are assholes, you're all whingebag dickheads.

 

[needtokill]

No it's not that at all, I actually am glad that you put in your two cents, anything that furthers political debate on this board the way it is at the moment is welcome in my opinion. I even repped you.

believe it or not, I'm all for debate.

I know noone from this squat.I haven't got some sort of personal vendetta against them or something.I'm fully aware, thank you, of how important it is as a venue and a centre for alternative activity of whatever kind.

I think perhaps your missing something here - I understand why they've been driven to the actions they're about to take.Extreme conditions demand extreme responses and all that.What I have a real issue with however, is, again, the tone that the above post,whoever put it together, takes.I do genuinely think it IS romanticising violence the way it refers to "the pure thrill and adrenalin of a rock in a cops face".I know full well it says also "it's a warning",I fully recognise they're saying it to make people aware that basically, there will be slaps.I think the wording they've chosen,wether they realise it or not, puts an emphasis on the "thrills" end of things as opposed to the "you may be injured" aspect.You seriously can't tell me the wording isn't meant to rouse people?Honestly.Read it again.What stands out more?

The "put your money where your mouth is" thing is goading people into going there and helping out.It's implying "oh, and by the way, you don't turn up,fuck you".I expect again the wording is deliberate.

As for me being "apolitical" or whatever,I think if you seriously believe I wish the punk scene was completely without politics I've obviously not expressed myself well ever in any discussioussion about it.What I've said time and time again is that I have a problem with the fact that politics take precedence over the musicla aspect of it.I've also said I have a problem when people presume,because politics aren't my main reason for involvement (as little as it is nowadays), that any contribution made by myself or other non blatantly anarcho types is viewed as less important.

and that's all i have to say.

 

[spuded]

look its a deadly spot, simple as that.

norrebrogade in my understanding was initially a very poor area when ungdomshuset was set up, the place itself provides a huge amount of actually money in the local economy (think about the amount of falafal people eat there for christsakes!) it has a place in that community and the only people who wanna shut it down are christians and the fuckin state.

yeah i understand people getting annoyed with the use of language in the initital post but c'mon people are frustrated there, they have been trying and trying and trying to work within the confines of non violent diplomacy and a system that simply does not give a fuck what they say.

 

[The Schnapper]

But then again what would be an incentive for you?

 

[Shorty]

I think perhaps your missing something here - I understand why they've been driven to the actions they're about to take.Extreme conditions demand extreme responses and all that.What I have a real issue with however, is, again, the tone that the above post,whoever put it together, takes.I do genuinely think it IS romanticising violence the way it refers to "the pure thrill and adrenalin of a rock in a cops face".I know full well it says also "it's a warning",I fully recognise they're saying it to make people aware that basically, there will be slaps.I think the wording they've chosen,wether they realise it or not, puts an emphasis on the "thrills" end of things as opposed to the "you may be injured" aspect.You seriously can't tell me the wording isn't meant to rouse people?Honestly.Read it again.What stands out more?

Well like cormy says, "This means there'll probably be a riot, with a lot of people involved" I think this is pretty much a certainty, but with the previous coverage on here of ungdomshuset and the riots and arrests at the action weekend in September as well as I hope the minimal level of political understanding people on here would have, I think the possibility of arrest or injury is obvious.
If you feel that this isn't an obvious, then I think your criticism is valid. So an apology is due or at least a clarification of the risk of arrest and injury, though this will be done when people arrive in Copenhagen. Also, one of the info nights that is being organised here, in my house no less, will have a speaker from ABC copenhagen to talk about protests, arrests and rights. These are all aspects that need to be taken into account in what is a possibly successful defending of the house.

The "put your money where your mouth is" thing is goading people into going there and helping out.It's implying "oh, and by the way, you don't turn up,fuck you".I expect again the wording is deliberate.

As for me being "apolitical" or whatever,I think if you seriously believe I wish the punk scene was completely without politics I've obviously not expressed myself well ever in any discussioussion about it.What I've said time and time again is that I have a problem with the fact that politics take precedence over the musicla aspect of it.I've also said I have a problem when people presume,because politics aren't my main reason for involvement (as little as it is nowadays), that any contribution made by myself or other non blatantly anarcho types is viewed as less important.

The put your money where your mouth is was me and is a reference to a lot of the people on eirecore who talk a lot of crap (so I suppose it was deliberate), I don't think this is something that needs to be pointed out. Though from what it seems, most of the people who are contributing to the scene rarely use eirecore (but I think still read it).
This is also obviously not directed at you as I think you've quite adequately substantiated yourself above.
I don't believe you wish the scene to be without politics but how harshly you want the demarkation and division between the two to be is perhaps where the misunderstanding lies. Something for further discussion at another time and in another place I suppose.

 

[needtokill]

Shorty - point all noted, taken and appreciated.As for the latter part, yeah, don't want to go into it in a thread that's about another issue,but very quickly - I'm really not asking for a harsh division between music and politics,it's more a balance.

 

[ian bastardcore]

Spread points before giving yada yada yada..
What do you do when even the Irish punks there are elitist??

explain that ?

 

[Blackenedflag]

explain that ?

I was disappointed that I ended up sleeping on the stairs on the top floor of the squat when people I knew lived up and around the corner from Ungdomshuset. I feel the situation would have probably of been different had I been more 'punk' and had the person I was traveling with arrived with me.

There ya go.

 

[ian bastardcore]

I was disappointed that I ended up sleeping on the stairs on the top floor of the squat when people I knew lived up and around the corner from Ungdomshuset. I feel the situation would have probably of been different had I been more 'punk' and had the person I was traveling with arrived with me.

There ya go.

Why didnt ye sleep in one of the 20 beds in ungdomshuset ? Or did sleeping on the stairs help your whingy story?

Im fed up of people using that "maybe if i was more punk" thing ... What a load of shite..

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

I was disappointed that I ended up sleeping on the stairs on the top floor of the squat

are there no hostels, hotels or b+bs in copenhagen?

 

[Shorty]

If anything this is a bit of a side thing but maybe look back over this thread

http://www.thumped.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=24509

 

[Shorty]

Maybe I should have just started with this one

Troublemakers of the world - We bid you welcome
We invite everybody who supports Ungdomshuset to come to Copenhagen in December. From the 13th through the 17th their will be actions, workshops, concerts and at least one demonstration.

For seven years we have struggled for a political solution that could remove the eviction threat against Ungdomshuset. These efforts have been in vain.
We are still trying to find a peacefull way to save the house but their is not much to hope for. Though the politicians has spoken a lot they have not done anything. The right wing christian sect whom the politicians gave our house is refusing to sell. In stead the have asked for permission to tear it down.
From just about everywhere there have been statements of support. From local citizens to revolutionary political groups abroad. Dansish labour unions, artists, mucisians and many more have spoken in our favor. We are very greatfull for this support. But so far it has not had an effect on the leadership of the Church that is cruisading against us. They still push for war.
We are still hoping and working for a political solution but from December 14th the question is no longer if we are going to be attacked by the police in an eviction attempt. From that day on it will be a question of when we are attacked.
This is why we are calling all the friends of Ungdomshuset to come to Copenhagen from the 13th of December. Activities are planned untill December 17th but you are welcome to stay longer. We need you.
Hope to see you here!

 

[Bastard Eoin]

are there no hostels, hotels or b+bs in copenhagen?

OMG!! I can't believe you even mentioned that...that is like sooo not ponk!!

I was disappointed that I ended up sleeping on the stairs on the top floor of the squat when people I knew lived up and around the corner from Ungdomshuset. I feel the situation would have probably of been different had I been more 'punk' and had the person I was traveling with arrived with me.

As for "BlackenedFlag", maybe you should just make better friends or even better...actual friends you'll watch your back, look out for your best interests etc. etc.

And finally...fair play to ya Nooly.

 

[Corm]

I was disappointed that I ended up sleeping on the stairs on the top floor of the squat when people I knew lived up and around the corner from Ungdomshuset. I feel the situation would have probably of been different had I been more 'punk' and had the person I was traveling with arrived with me.

There ya go.

What? I don't recall you asking if we had a place for you to sleep, or even if there was somewhere other than a stairs where you could sleep.

I'm not a fuckin tour guide or a holiday rep. I'm a fuckin punk. If you want something, take it or ask for it. Am I supposed to bring you out for a 4-course meal and seek accomodation for you because you're from the same country as me?! Strangely enough, the elitist irish punks there mostly had/have pretty busy & active lives, jobs, bands & projects of their own and have better things to do than hold punk tourists' hands and give the guided tour.

I don't remember you striving to start any particular conversation or try to seek out common ground? Sure I don't even fucking know you other than as some chap who occasionally mumbled something when I'd say hello at my friends' squat in Dublin. If you were more "punk" maybe you wouldn't give a shit and take things as they come, try and actually make friends with someone rather than expect them to hand you some VIP ticket to a social scene on a silver platter!? The only reason people know me and make friends with me is because for many years I've done zines, bands, put on gigs and generally actually CONTRIBUTED to a scene rather than stand there with my hand out going "boo-hoo, what about me, where's my share?". Fucking hell.

It's easy to sit behind a computer screen whinging about how exclusivist everyone else is; go out and fuckin talk to someone or develop some sort of fucking interests to talk to people about or some shit!??!

Maybe I'll write a "social skills" zine next since I'm evidently such an elitist mover-and-shaker, would you like that yeah?

 

[The Schnapper]

Put that in your pipe and smoke it ! ! !

 

[W.]

I'm sure you don't have to like the people who live in ungdomshuset to defend the gaff? On a political level the state has fucked them over and is removing one of the last autonomous social centres in Northern Europe. Squatters riot on eviction day, it's a fact, the worst thing shorty did was try to invite you guys. Big mistake obviously.

Come January the place will be gone anyway, the automen movement is over all that's left is a crude parody.

 

[Rachel666]

whinging

ah here, i know its none of my business but that's bad fucking form. if anyone I knew to be sound ever made the journey even to brittas bay i'd put them up and give them a meal. you're just a snob. punk, scene, zines, bands, involvement; all bullshit in this argument. we all know each other so whats the problem? It's not like people are wearing out their welcomes. did you not have visitors when you were little?

 

[bin]

I was disappointed that I ended up sleeping on the stairs on the top floor of the squat when people I knew lived up and around the corner from Ungdomshuset. I feel the situation would have probably of been different had I been more 'punk' and had the person I was traveling with arrived with me.

There ya go.

Damn man, I was WELL pleased to have a floor to crash on (The exact same one as you did I suspect). I always am - no matter where I am.
I was shown up there by someone from the house - I have NO idea who it was, and I was definitely one of the more drunk and retarded people there at the time! I really don't think being good mates with Birgit could have swung it alone!
Just to say like - I found everyone to be really friendly - Danish an' all.
And it's fair to say that I have been known to be less than easy to know at times......

 

[spuded]

ah here, i know its none of my business but that's bad fucking form. if anyone I knew to be sound ever made the journey even to brittas bay i'd put them up and give them a meal. you're just a snob. punk, scene, zines, bands, involvement; all bullshit in this argument. we all know each other so whats the problem? It's not like people are wearing out their welcomes. did you not have visitors when you were little?

ah boss in fairness people do have the right not to want people in their house regardless of whether or not they happen to have been at some of the same gigs as each other, a person's space is a person's space and dfor instance are you sayin that if you were going through some mad personal crisis or just were really fuckin busy you'd really want a visitor? I have been fortunate enough to stay with alot of sound people over the years and have had sound ones stay with me too, but alot of it is about mutual respect and you shouldn't expect anything from anyone just because ya both like crass.

 

[spuded]

and anyway back to ungdomshuset it's deadly