the iRA and the Bank Robbery (1 Viewer)

[Problematic]

seriously folks, chocohead may get a little heated with what he`s saying but he is essentially speaking with more of a basis in fact and reality than most of you are. Most of you arguing in this thread seem to come from an anti-republican and especially anti-SF standpoint, and while that is fair enough, it hardly makes you unbiased in your opinion (and no neither am I). It serves your already arrived at viewpoint of republicans, to dismiss us as criminals and thugs, and the current political and media feeding frenzy just gives you even more ammunition to use in your broad brush stroke attacks. The bottom line within all of this, is that no proof linking Sinn Fein to the northern bank robbery has been offered, the people arrested over the last few days have no current links to Sinn Fein, at least one of them had past links to Fianna Fail and one of them was a high ranking trade unionist and spin doctor for Bertie, how much mud did you sling his way because of this link ? None, neither did anybody in the any section of the media. As for the recent brutal murder in Belfast, the Sinn Fein leadership has been pretty clear in telling people to go forward with any information, they can not and will not tell people to go the RUC/PSNI, how the fuck can you ask people to report to people you don`t trust (with good reason), but there are other avenues that are used all the time, it is standard practice in many areas of the six counties to approach a solicitor or priest with information, for the RUC/PSNI to be claiming now this doesn`t happen is bullshit. The fact that the guy reponsible for the killing may be a Sinn Fein activist hardly warrants Sinn Fein as an organisation being held responsible, this just makes no sense, some scumbag gets pissed up and knifes a fella, therefore all republicans are criminals. Bullshit. Back to the bank robbery for a second before I go to bed, it makes no sense for any section of the pro-agreement republican movement to carry this out, we had far more to lose than to gain, and nothing within republicanism just happens, everything is thought out and thought through, it just makes no sense to me. I fail to see why people are so quick to rush to judgement on this when no evidence of any kind has been produced, in such a critical matter and time it just doesn`t cut it to say "look we know the IRA did it, just trust me, I know they did, but I can`t tell you how I know". Really is this good enough ? Everybody on the attack at the moment has their own agenda and motives but for people to swallow the bile being tossed about at the moment so easily is a little surreal and unsettling. Anyway, that is my tuppenceworth, I doubt any of you will change you mind but I wanted to toss it out there anyway.

 

[Problematic]

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As far as I'm concerned, this makes a hell of a lot more sense than "The IRA planted the money in our shower-room."
Like, what fuckin RA member is going to risk walking into a police recreation facility with a bag full of stolen Northern Bank notes just in an effort to frame the police? And would personnel at this facility not have recognised the fact of a total stranger doing exactly this? However, if a well-known face walks in there with a sports-bag over his shoulder, well thats a different matter isn't it, it's just constable Parker going for a bit of a work out ain't it?
Which sounds more fuckin likely? PSNI are wankers.

Apart from anything else, an RUC/PSNI facility is going to be security camera-ed up the ass, nobody could have just walked in there and "planted" a bag without being noticed. We`re supposed to believe he strolled past the cameras in reception in an RUC/PSNI facility with his face covered. Makes lots of sense alright.

 

[Cormcolash]

Everybody on the attack at the moment has their own agenda and motives but for people to swallow the bile being tossed about at the moment so easily is a little surreal and unsettling.

Totally. The (not-so) amazing thing about this whole situation in my opinion, is that I can't actually believe a word any of the politicians or indeed the police force say. When are people going to realise that they all talk shit all the time, everyone of them has their own agenda. The media is no better at all, again they operate to their own agenda, which like it or not does tend to be consistently anti-Sinn Fein, with a few exceptions. And that is coming from someone that hates Sinn Fein. Basically, until there is actual cast-iron proof about the whole robbery thing, eg. 26 million quid being found in someone's house in a plausible sounding situation, I don't see how anyone can believe any of the shit being thrown about here!

 

[Chocohead]

lots of people believe it. im sorry if i come across hotheaded in here - dont mean to be, but I really dont understand how people can accept everything they hear on the news as fact. Its not going to help the peace process.

 

[Latex lizzie]

..just because people happen to have the same viewpoint as what happens in the media does not mean that their opinion was formed by the media. THe reason you come across as a hothead is because you fail to understand this.

 

[Chocohead]

fair enough, but how have you made your decision and what facts are you basing it on. there arent any facts stating SF knew or or were involved in the robbery, no facts to state the three in the leadership are in the IRA army council, no facts to say anyone planted anything in the ruc gym - theres nothing to back up your claims except for a lot of hotair in the media. henceforth i am confused. why not blame the 4th regional monkey army from Gwanda? they coulda done it. they have the monkeys.

 

[Bunny]

seriously folks, chocohead may get a little heated with what he`s saying but he is essentially speaking with more of a basis in fact and reality than most of you are. Most of you arguing in this thread seem to come from an anti-republican and especially anti-SF standpoint, and while that is fair enough, it hardly makes you unbiased in your opinion..... /QUOTE]

Hey, I'm not anti-Republican or anti Sinn Fein at all. I was of the opinion that they had made huge improvements over the years and actually gave them a vote in the last election just for spite (I'm anti Fianna Fail). But IF the results or EVIDENCE of this investigation finger the Republicans or anyone connected to Sinn Fein I will be a little embarrassed and disheartened.
I know people who've grown up in Belfast and had been subjected to discrimination and abuse from the Loyalist community, and listened to Unionist leaders mouthing openly bigotted remarks (without apology) and generally of the belief that Catholics are a sub-human species. Thats the shit I'm against..

 

[Chocohead]

I will be a little embarrassed and disheartened.

same here. if i find out SF had anything to do with the robbery, if i find they have been lying about not knowing, if i find the provos have been lying - all these things would make a major shift in how I think if they were to be true.

I'm just waiting on the proof - if they are true - outside of the 'eveyone says so' idea that seems to be popular at the minute.

 

[MDR]

Hey, I'm not anti-Republican or anti Sinn Fein at all. I was of the opinion that they had made huge improvements over the years and actually gave them a vote in the last election just for spite (I'm anti Fianna Fail). But IF the results or EVIDENCE of this investigation finger the Republicans or anyone connected to Sinn Fein I will be a little embarrassed and disheartened.

Did you seriously believe that they weren't involved in organised crime, punishment beatings etc. when you voted for them? Or did you just think that other political parties were doing worse? I can't see how fiddling local authority zoning is worse than shooting someone in the hands and all that.

 

[Chocohead]

Did you seriously believe that they weren't involved in organised crime, punishment beatings etc. when you voted for them? Or did you just think that other political parties were doing worse? I can't see how fiddling local authority zoning is worse than shooting someone in the hands and all that.

isnt there usually reasons for kneecappings? What if you lived in a community and you couldnt go to the RUC since it was a waste of time. say you were being physically harrassed constantly by a group of people. what would you do?

lots of times people go to the ira, who will warn those concerned and its only after two warnings that they get kneecapped.

rough justice and far far far far from perfect, but until theres a proper police force, and whilst people are so stupid to ignore two warnings to wise up, it is going to happen.

 

[Problematic]

Did you seriously believe that they weren't involved in organised crime, punishment beatings etc. when you voted for them? Or did you just think that other political parties were doing worse? I can't see how fiddling local authority zoning is worse than shooting someone in the hands and all that.

First off, Sinn Fein don`t do punishment beating and are not involved in criminality, you can roll out all the old chestmuts if you want but it would be nice if you could maybe post a little proof or backup material, but yeah yeah, I know that sort of stuff isn`t needed, all you gotta do is say "sure everybody knows". From his posts it seems he votes in the 26 counties, punishment beatings don`t happen here and if there was a police force worthy of the name north of the border there would be no necessity for them to happen there either. The reality of the situation is a lot of communities in the six counties don`t have an operational police force and consequently criminality tends to be dealt with within those communities, while this may be unpalatable to you, it is a reality that a lot of folks have to deal with.

 

[MDR]

IRA are involved in punsihment beatings. Sinn Fein and the IRA are one and the same. You don't have to believe me and I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You're just rolling out the usual SF obfuscation and sophistic bullshit that noone except yourselves believe.

 

[Problematic]

IRA are involved in punsihment beatings. Sinn Fein and the IRA are one and the same. You don't have to believe me and I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You're just rolling out the usual SF obfuscation and sophistic bullshit that noone except yourselves believe.

fair enough, you`re entitled to your opinion, I don`t agree, I`m in Sinn Fein, I`ve never been involved with the IRA. The point is, getting to a stage where things like punishment beatings don`t happen, that won`t happen until the policing issue is dealt with. Admonishing the IRA for what you deem to be unsavoury actions is all well and good but it doesn`t change anything. You seemed to be making a dig at a previous poster (Bunny) for voting SF in the last elections, a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote towards getting the policing issue sorted so that the police are actually responsible for policing not the IRA or anybody else. Try to deal with the reality of what goes on rather than this flick of the wrist dismissal and the usual tripe of "noone but yourselves believe" nonsense. Areas where punishment beatings are carried out have almost 100% Sinn Fein electoral support. Are these people stupid or do they see internal policing as something that is necessarry in the absence of an honest and trustworthy government force ?

 

[nlgbbbblth]

there's a similar debate going on at http://www.hotpress.com/discuss/topic.adp?d=248709&t=2781800

Chocohead - from reading it I gather you're not having much joy over there either

 

[Chocohead]

peraonlly , i'd love to know what the "usual SF obfuscation and sophistic bullshit " is. I know for a fact how punishment beatings happen as once I had to have people warned off beating the shit out of me every weekend as the RUC used to watch and laugh. thankfully those involved werent stupid enough to keep it up.

i think Problematic covered the point fully, so its up to you Mumblin Deaf Ro what you believe but these things arent as simple as you seem to believe.

Also, it wasnt Sinn Fein who carried out the warning. I didnt have to go to them at all in fact.

 

[Chocohead]

there's a similar debate going on at http://www.hotpress.com/discuss/topic.adp?d=248709&t=2781800

Chocohead - from reading it I gather you're not having much joy over there either

much joy doing what exactly? asking questions that dont get answered? hang on ... isnt that the problem with this thread too? amazing that.

 

[Chocohead]

must say though, both threads make entertaining reading. scary reading, considering how little people bother to think before stating opionions, but funny none theless

 

[Chocohead]

I`m in Sinn Fein, I`ve never been involved with the IRA.

i too am the same and ive tried explaining that in this and other threads, but it seems we arent worth believing. the only time ive ever met anyone in the ira was the time mentioned above somewhere and that was over 20 years ago.

 

[MDR]

but it seems we arent worth believing.

My point exactly.

 

[Chocohead]

how do you justify that? why is my words worth less than yours?