the great demo debate (1 Viewer)

[Bastard Eoin]

I would say sure, if you want a triple gate-old sleeve with a free jigsaw puzzle then by all means go for it. But if it's a case where a band doesn't really understand what it's doing and is genuinely expecting to shift all their records and recoup their money well...maybe it's not very wise

Fukkin' right, it's not very wise. Tis fukkin' retarded!! But sure bands attempting such tomfoolery will have to learn from their mistakes and/or become so disillusioned with the whole shebang that they'll give up playing music altogether, and let's be honest here...they're band was probably crap!

 

[cesspooldublin]

What you're talking about Jamie also brings up another big problem, which I've also touched on in something I was writing recently: basically how easy it is to do everything now.

Bands putting out records before they're ready, bands going on tour before they're ready, bands splitting up before they've even begun to find their sound, and peoples' attention spans eroding eroding eroding.

With so many superflous records, CDs and tours, and with the current ease of booking tours and releasing records what with Myspace and all, everything is so much more CONSUMABLE. It's all becoming more & more meaningless. When I started getting into music I'd listen to the same new tape literally thousands of times, because I could only get a new one every few months, like on my birthday or whatever, or would tape songs off the radio to get ahold of them. Now it's rare that I'll give something more than 5 listens unless it comes highly recommended or there's something amazing there, simply because of the constant saturation.

And the thing with touring...it's harder & harder to break even, despite selling lots of t-shirts/patches/records, and this has a lot to do with the proliferation of shit bands. This could seem arrogant, but when the money is being split between 3 touring bands, and most of the people have come to see your band because you've toured there before and built up a reputation & hype through your records and previous bands, it's a pisser that you can't break even, when you would have if it wasn't for some shit band touring just because they can, when they haven't even played half a dozen gigs in their home town, or even written a decent set and gotten some decent music. It's fucking rediculous, and it's continuing the errosion of the DIY scene. Fucking stay at home and practise, put on gigs in your own town and play at them, and then tour when you're ready...after you've done at least 1 demo, realised you're shit, and written new songs that sound like you want to be.

wow.

that's pretty much summed up exactly how I feel about it perfectly. Quality is being diregarded by bands in the race to get popular. People are dedicating more attention to getting "merch" done or playing the right gigs or just generally having a saleable product than taking the time and effort to write good songs that actually mean something. We all need to slow down and start putting in a bit more thought if this DIY thing is to work in any way other than a mini version of the music business, and I think that's why the humble demo/cdr is such an important, accessible thing that can have such a huge effect on a band's development.

 

[Gambra]

Does anyone think that the extremes of DIY music are being taken too far be people so? I'd say so.. Simply because you can release a CD or record does not mean at all.

 

[cesspooldublin]

yeah well see I'd say again, anyone can and should do a demo or even something like a split 7", but I think you kinda have to work your way up to a larger release. the problem is when bands just figure because they can do a cd/7" instead as their first thing they just figure that makes more sense, and I've heard of bands who've literally not played more than a handful of gigs or recorded anything before deciding to do a 7" or LP or something first. because it's what American or European bands do it, everyone thinks they should do it.Even the UK is full of shitty bands releasing 7"s/LPs, playing for 3 months, and then breaking up because they're disillusioned when things don't work out straight away. People for some reason just don't feel like they want to allow themselves the time to develop, which is why the scene is overrun with all these generic, shitty bands.

I think bands feel pressured to just instantly do vinyl/cd now without knowing if it's something they even really want to do.

getting to do an lp or 7" all on your own is something that's taken for granted now. there was a time when is wasn't so easy to do, and consequently you had to be really fucking good to do one.

 

[Gambra]

But even in the States theres not many bands I know of that jump straight into a full release. They have a good system over there, any band I check out does have a demo up online or for sale for like $4 and if its good a label will contact them to help get something out. I think the fact that pressing is mad cheap when say, pooled with all the members in the band and it really does make things too easy. I know I'll this from a label head perspective but there isn't enough Irish labels to filter out the crap.

 

[cesspooldublin]

even if you look at things here, bands like Only Fumes & Corpses or the current line up of Easpa Measa doing demos - those are the bands who I guess are the "biggest" as far as I can see and they still did demos that looked and sounded great. None of these bands jumped straight into releasing an album or whatever straight away, they've gradually put out a demo, then splits, worked their way up.Which is the way to do it and why they've lasted longer than 6 months. They've not started, released an "ep" (ie a demo with fancier packaging), become hometown heros, and then split after playing to the same people every 3 weeks for a year.

 

[Gambra]

Definitely. The Only Fumes And Corpes demo was deadly (though a wee bit pricey for how long it is) and the packaging is great. There's also other bands who make only about 10 demo CDr's and then nothing else sees the light of day for yonks. That really annoys me too.

 

[killy kill]

released an "ep" (ie a demo with fancier packaging.

I always find it amusing when bands doing a DIY release call their demos "eps", then play a gig "launching" it

 

[Gambra]

I always find it amusing when bands doing a DIY release call their demos "eps", then play a gig "launching" it

Thats what I had to convince Les Enfants to do. I didn't want to release a full album. For certain members of the band, EP and "launch" was the only language they comprehended. The majority of the band are fully fledged DIYers but two aren't so this dressing up of the demo was necessary.

 

[therealjohnny]

~Old argument alert~


the word demo...its not exactly accurate is it? 'Demos 'are what you give to a record company to demonstrate what you can do in the hopes of getting signed.

If it's a DIY release, I don't see why you wouldn't consider your effort to be legitimate/bone fide/darn tootin/ honest to goodness "release"

so why not have a launch gig?

 

[therealjohnny]

Thats what I had to convince Les Enfants to do. I didn't want to release a full album. For certain members of the band, EP and "launch" was the only language they comprehended. The majority of the band are fully fledged DIYers but two aren't so this dressing up of the demo was necessary.

There was a fairly successful band in the 80s called Les Enfants who were mooted as Ireland's "next big thing". I thought everyone would have heard about them

but then I'm old

 

[Gambra]

There was a fairly successful band in the 80s called Les Enfants who were mooted as Ireland's "next big thing". I thought everyone would have heard about them

but then I'm old

hahaha, no its not them.. the band I'm talking about are Les Enfants Terribles. From Limerick,

 

[killy kill]

~Old argument alert~


the word demo...its not exactly accurate is it? 'Demos 'are what you give to a record company to demonstrate what you can do in the hopes of getting signed.

If it's a DIY release, I don't see why you wouldn't consider your effort to be legitimate/bone fide/darn tootin/ honest to goodness "release"

so why not have a launch gig?

Fair point, i just think it smacks of a big timer attitude. Maybe the ep vs demo thing got its values reversed through the years

 

[DeAd_KeV]

yeh its mental to see bands who have been around a couple of months acting so professionally when they are clearly still finding their feet.i think alot of bands are just prematurely trying to catch up with some of the more well known names of the irish scene without realising the work, time and effort that has been put in to make that name.

 

[rape the drummer]

yeah ya don't just become a burn it to the ground over night like...feckin kids.

 

[Space]

So what's the feelings on doing "proper" releases like albums on cdrs, am I in the right thread with that question?

I'd say call your release whatever you want really(be that demo or ep) but don't spend a shit load of money on vinyl/fancy vinyl if you're only starting out.

 

[pete]

I don't have a cassette player.



_

me neither.

edit: oh wait, i do. carry on.

 

[Rimbaud]

had a big post written and turned out i was logged out!
I'm not writing it again.

Long and short of it was about the perception by some bands as the DIY scene being a 'Mini version of the music industry' - really grinds my gears!Its totally fuckin different!
Diy is doing it for yourself f or yourslef and your peers and people with common ground/interests - not for an industry/company/dick who's only worried how your hair will look on the front of hotdress magazine.

Been ages since i got a demo in the post - used to get LOADS from (Retards) which was brilliant.
Got the Les Christ Punchers cd which is deadly as it has the energy and feel, you know they've got some mad shit to come, but i think they know what needs to be done to improve it, hence they did'nt press a real cd i presume?.Or else it down to costs etc...No point in doing a real cd if your recording budget was next to nil & the recording is substandard.Save, practice and the real cd will come when your ready and been around the block once or twice.
Of course - they're are bands out their that still sound killer even with crappy recordings - Terveet Kadet bootleg im playing at the moment is one of those - so brilliant, energitic and intense!
Sorry - rambling....
I'm pretty clueless anyways - i just like all these crazy fuckers screaming over the top with the guitar screaching in the corner of the room..|..|

 

[São Paulo Punk]

so I'm just wondering how people feel about this:

I've noticed recently that whereas ten, maybe even five years ago, it was the standard thing that a band would release a demo or two before making the leap to vinyl/"proper" cd. It seems nowadays though, more and more bands are just going straight to vinyl, and in a lot of cases it's before they're actually ready.I'm not specifically just talking about Irish bands here I should point out, but I have noticed recently it does seem like a lot of newer bands are starting, playing a couple of gigs, and are already talking about doing an "album" almost straight away. While I commend the enthusiasm, the problem with doing this is, let's be honest, very few bands are fully formed enough to make the leap straight to vinyl.The only band I can think of lately who've been really deserving of vinyl at such an early stage has been Tunguska, who were one of those rare bands who pretty much emerged fully formed from the get go. It seems like folks are a little bit too eager to release something before they've really found their feet musically because it makes them seem more "Professional".
obviously the other factor here is with sites like myspace, purevolume, etc, bands are recording and just throwing a song or two up there - which is cool, but for me packaging and artwork and lyrics a re a big part of the joy of getting a release in my hands, and these sites don't really compensate for that.

I was going through a bunch of old demos recently, and some of my favourite Irish releases have been demos - Jackbeast, Blackbelt Jones, or more recently Crowd Control or DeNovissimis to name but two.
Opinions?

I think it's pretty much none of my business whether people do it on cdr or proper cd or whatever. If I like the band or if it's a friend's band I'll buy it, and if it's not on cdr then it'll probably last that bit longer.

I'm sure that there are some bands out there nowadays who wouldn't touch cdr's or tapes cause they think it doesnt look 'professional' enough or whatever but that's they're loss, both financially and also in terms of street cred.

Personally, I did up about 100 Terrordactyl EPs (demos hahaha) on cdr last year, sent a load over to Brazil and got rid of the rest on tour in Europe. The sad thing is, they were really hard to shift in Europe cause people seemed more interested in vinyl and proper cds. We ended up just giving loads of them away at the end cause they'd cost fuck all to make anyway. We were selling them for pretty cheap too. Now the same tunes are getting pressed on proper cds so make sure you kids make it down to the 'launch'!!!

It would be good if bands did focus a bit more on the content as opposed to the format though. At the end of the day, some bands are so shit that they shouldn't even be allowed to put out a tape!

I guess the plus side is that less of the good bands will be lost over the years now, i.e. that deadly local band that never recorded anything, never had the money to put something out etc... will actually have a better chance of surviving through the ages.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

This is a really interesting debate.
I think from an economic/common sense point of view you have a point about people tryna run before they can walk/rock but since it is DIY they can and do whatever the fuck they want, even if it is throwing money down the drain for a few hundred shiny coasters.
[Academic research question] With the latest whiz bang technology do home demos and the like sound better than they used to? [/Academic research question]