the great demo debate (1 Viewer)

[cesspooldublin]

so I'm just wondering how people feel about this:

I've noticed recently that whereas ten, maybe even five years ago, it was the standard thing that a band would release a demo or two before making the leap to vinyl/"proper" cd. It seems nowadays though, more and more bands are just going straight to vinyl, and in a lot of cases it's before they're actually ready.I'm not specifically just talking about Irish bands here I should point out, but I have noticed recently it does seem like a lot of newer bands are starting, playing a couple of gigs, and are already talking about doing an "album" almost straight away. While I commend the enthusiasm, the problem with doing this is, let's be honest, very few bands are fully formed enough to make the leap straight to vinyl.The only band I can think of lately who've been really deserving of vinyl at such an early stage has been Tunguska, who were one of those rare bands who pretty much emerged fully formed from the get go. It seems like folks are a little bit too eager to release something before they've really found their feet musically because it makes them seem more "Professional".
obviously the other factor here is with sites like myspace, purevolume, etc, bands are recording and just throwing a song or two up there - which is cool, but for me packaging and artwork and lyrics a re a big part of the joy of getting a release in my hands, and these sites don't really compensate for that.

I was going through a bunch of old demos recently, and some of my favourite Irish releases have been demos - Jackbeast, Blackbelt Jones, or more recently Crowd Control or DeNovissimis to name but two.
Opinions?

 

[Gambra]

Definitely. For some reason or another it seems to be absolute anathema for bands around here (even one in particular on out label) to even recognise demos as a perfectly valid form of release. The fact that they spent X amount of money on a recording sessions does not mean it has to be rushed out as a pressed cd or vinyl. If you still like the songs after they've been released then cool, record them again after tweaks and go for it "properly".

This whole thing happened to Les Enfants who we released the demo EP of. They spent a couple of hundred on their recording, got it sounding sweet and then kept bugging me saying they wanted a pressed cd. I humoured them for a while and then convinced them CDr is good enough. They'v made 150 and only sold/given away about 70. And the result? They play not one of the tracks live anymore as they
all hate the tracks now. If they hadn't done the cdr EP stage then we'd have about 400 pressed CD's sitting around doing nothing.

 

[Corm]

Yes, totally. It really pisses me off that so much crap is shat out onto vinyl and CDs, only to remain under peoples' beds for 5 years before being given away to people who don't really even want it, or chucked out. Personnally I've not been in any band that hasn't done a cassette release before "proper" pressed material, which is as much because I just love the feel and buzz off a demo tape as it is that I want to be anti-consumerist or whatever. And there's nothing like getting a cool looking scrappy demo tape and wondering might it just possibly be one of those fucking great unheard gems that you're going to love, instead of another budget version of a "proper" looking CD, replete with bog-standard graphic design and pixelised photos.

Do a fucking tape, for fuck sake!!

 

[cesspooldublin]

I know from my own experience, DEBT should really have released a demo properly before the album. We did record one but it was never released, and then we were kinda coralled into recording the album without having enough experience. It can be a HUGE mistake for bands to rush into things and demos are as vital a developmental tool as gigging regularly.

 

[jimbobjones]

I was going through a bunch of old demos recently, and some of my favourite Irish releases have been demos - Jackbeast, Blackbelt Jones, or more recently Crowd Control or DeNovissimis to name but two.
Opinions?

you're forgetting the Cheapskate -'Social Welfare' demo. classic stuff!

 

[closed groove]

i say it is probably cause people have alot more money than 5-10 years ago and can afford to put out an album whenever they want to. instead of going on demo tape or whatever. some of mates released a 4 track e.p. cause I think they were bored.

 

[cesspooldublin]

you're forgetting the Cheapskate -'Social Welfare' demo. classic stuff!

that's by no means a comprehensive list, obviously.

 

[Gambra]

If I ever join/form a band there's no way I'll press anything unless at least 1 or 2 demos are out there.

 

[cesspooldublin]

what partially prompted me to see what people think about this kind of thing is the fact that I got a myspace thing off a band today asking us to put them on in Dublin as they're releasing their debut album soon.

Now to be honest they're not really the kind of thing we're in to going on the description they gave us (street punk/ska influenced - definitely not the kinda thing we put on), but there was no music or anything on their page.

It just struck me as crazy that this band, who seem relatively new, are releasing an album first from what i can tell and have decided to book a tour without so much as even a practice recording for folks outside of their home town to listen to.Surely if you're going to take on such a massive (and expensive) project as releasing an album it would make sense to have a couple of songs available for people to get a taster of what you're about first?

One of the other reasons for demos I always felt is that particularly from newish bands,they're pretty much essential if you're starting out and trying to get gigs. I'm wary of putting on any band unless i can hear them, and surely a demo is a handy, quick way for bands to look for gigs. Again in this case even though they're probably not something we'd be into doing due to the style they described to us, if I was able to hear them and get a sense of what they're like it might be the kind of thing that might make me consider changing my opinion.

 

[Gambra]

what partially prompted me to see what people think about this kind of thing is the fact that I got a myspace thing off a band today asking us to put them on in Dublin as they're releasing their debut album soon.

Does this band happen to be pressing 1,000 copies of their album on vinyl?

 

[cesspooldublin]

I don't think so. I should say I'm certainly not dissing this band in any way shape or form if anyone knows who I'm on about, I'm using them to just kind of illustrate a recent example of what i think is a growing phenomenon.

 

[Gambra]

It may be the same band but I got an email from a local band saying they're going pressing 1,000 copies of their record soon. Which is absolutely insane. I've barely heard their name and they're expecting to shift 1000 copies??

 

[therealjohnny]

yikes..more money than sense!

Everyone I know who ever released a record has ended up with loads, under the bed or in the attic.

The thought of a young band spending that amount of money on 1000 records!! Someone should warn them.

I still have a bunch of Stress records by the way, if anyone wants one!

 

[Daniel]

what partially prompted me to see what people think about this kind of thing is the fact that I got a myspace thing off a band today asking us to put them on in Dublin as they're releasing their debut album soon.

Now to be honest they're not really the kind of thing we're in to going on the description they gave us (street punk/ska influenced - definitely not the kinda thing we put on), but there was no music or anything on their page.

Is it Carry No Banners? It must be.

The reason some bands get 1000 (as opposed to 500 say) pressed is that it works out cheaper per CD.

 

[Bastard Eoin]

Interesting thread, coincidentally there's a similar one going on over in www.metalireland.com land, "Demos or Albums".

I'm all for demo's but at the end of the day who's business is it really if a band wants to release 6,666 copies of the first song they ever wrote when they were 12 on limited edition vinyl with a cottage cheese inlay. Peeps are always going to have a different view of what's the correct and incorrect way of doing things and/or "making it".

Personally, I get a kick out of photocopied covers, reading the thanks list, watching for mis-spellings etc. plus everyone knows the demo's are always better, I mean we always "prefer the earlier stuff", right!?

Give me a shitty demo tape over a brand spanking new digipack CD any day but if you want to release a double gate fold 9 and 3/4" before you have even got out of the practice room, fukkin' go for it...sure it's only a matter of time before you learn from your mistakes.

 

[therealjohnny]

I would say sure, if you want a triple gate-old sleeve with a free jigsaw puzzle then by all means go for it. But if it's a case where a band doesn't really understand what it's doing and is genuinely expecting to shift all their records and recoup their money well...maybe it's not very wise

Also the initial point is a good one.. get good ( or as good as you can be) before going to the expense of getting a cd/record pressed

And tapes are a cheap and easy way to get your stuff out there. if you're just starting chances are the first songs you write will embarrass you within a fairly short time.

In saying that though I gave a tape to mate recently and he told me "thanks, but I have nothing to play it on"

 

[HMD]

I don't have a cassette player.



_

 

[Corm]

What you're talking about Jamie also brings up another big problem, which I've also touched on in something I was writing recently: basically how easy it is to do everything now.

Bands putting out records before they're ready, bands going on tour before they're ready, bands splitting up before they've even begun to find their sound, and peoples' attention spans eroding eroding eroding.

With so many superflous records, CDs and tours, and with the current ease of booking tours and releasing records what with Myspace and all, everything is so much more CONSUMABLE. It's all becoming more & more meaningless. When I started getting into music I'd listen to the same new tape literally thousands of times, because I could only get a new one every few months, like on my birthday or whatever, or would tape songs off the radio to get ahold of them. Now it's rare that I'll give something more than 5 listens unless it comes highly recommended or there's something amazing there, simply because of the constant saturation.

And the thing with touring...it's harder & harder to break even, despite selling lots of t-shirts/patches/records, and this has a lot to do with the proliferation of shit bands. This could seem arrogant, but when the money is being split between 3 touring bands, and most of the people have come to see your band because you've toured there before and built up a reputation & hype through your records and previous bands, it's a pisser that you can't break even, when you would have if it wasn't for some shit band touring just because they can, when they haven't even played half a dozen gigs in their home town, or even written a decent set and gotten some decent music. It's fucking rediculous, and it's continuing the errosion of the DIY scene. Fucking stay at home and practise, put on gigs in your own town and play at them, and then tour when you're ready...after you've done at least 1 demo, realised you're shit, and written new songs that sound like you want to be.

 

[therealjohnny]

"I don't have a cassette player."

I'm experiencing future shock

 

[Gambra]

Well you'll all lose out then when the cassette labels (my one and cesspool) are putting out tapes.