[Sunday Business Post] Irish music industry hit by downloading (1 Viewer)

[Space]

Oh yes, I agree it's a separate discussion. It's just a bugbear of mine, is all.

That's cool I just realised this arguement(the music one) is very, very similar to how (small) farmers are being forced out of business by the big supermarket chains and customers wanting to pay as little as possible for their food.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I'm not so sure. I think for a lot of people, it's just a case of building up their music collection. Me, I listen to one album every couple of months that I consider worthwhile. And most of this is because of friends who tell me "oh you should check this out". Music is a community thing, and a referral from a friend is worth a thousand downloads, or a thousand references to bands in the "music I like" box on your myspace page (usually preceded by "music is my life....in no particular order....."insert gazillion band names, preferably stuff that is just out this week). Downloaded depersonalises the community experience, just as the internet has depersonalised all aspects of community experiences.

i have the opposite experience. i downloaded countless albums on soulseek and bittorrent etc and found it very exciting from a musical discovery viewpoint and i sent giddy messages to friends blathering about some album i just got and burned loads of cdrs to give to friends without broadband and discussed music i downloaded in person with other friends and online in a way i could never do back when i was buying a couple of albums once a month that i might or might not not like. yes, i downloaded loads of crap that i never listen to and no i didnt actually buy albums by all those bands i downloaded in order to support them, theres no way i could ever buy them all and if i had to buy their albums to listen to i'd never hear them anyway. i do still buy music too... as a fan (as opposed to a member of the musician minority) all this downloading is amazing to me, i love it (although i dont do it so much anymore). you filter the good stuff from the bad by listening to it and theres no way its ever going to go back to a case of buying an album by a band and giving them money to hear it - its (i hope) just not going to happen. if you have old-fashioned fans into their music and into a band they will buy albums and pay fan club subscriptions etc. everyone else will download whatever they want and listen to it for free, maybe if they like something they'll contribute something to its creators. says i.

 

[egg_]

That's cool I just realised this arguement(the music one) is very, very similar to how (small) farmers are being forced out of business by the big supermarket chains and customers wanting to pay as little as possible for their food.

There are parallels alright. The obvious route for small farmers that are being forced out is to diversify, and sell things that are difficult for agri-business to produce, like, I dunno, artisan cheese and rare-breed pork and handmade ice-cream and the like. Not to belittle the plight of the small farmer in any way, but there's not really any similar diversification options for the small-scale music producer - we all produce music that can be rendered into shareable data files. Not so easy to do it with vinyl, so maybe vinyl is the future for the likes of us all here

Is the film industry being hit in a similar way by filesharing?

 

[lemonbravo]

That's cool I just realised this arguement(the music one) is very, very similar to how (small) farmers are being forced out of business by the big supermarket chains and customers wanting to pay as little as possible for their food.

although people don't think they should get their food for free....

 

[Wilbert]

I don't own an ipod, nor do i download music (don't like listening to music on headphones you see)

Oh, really?

 

[Space]

There are parallels alright. The obvious route for small farmers that are being forced out is to diversify, and sell things that are difficult for agri-business to produce, like, I dunno, artisan cheese and rare-breed pork and handmade ice-cream and the like. Not to belittle the plight of the small farmer in any way, but there's not really any similar diversification options for the small-scale music producer - we all produce music that can be rendered into shareable data files. Not so easy to do it with vinyl, so maybe vinyl is the future for the likes of us all here

Is the film industry being hit in a similar way by filesharing?

Don't think so but it will be when interent speeds get faster. At the moment the files for films are still huge and slow to download.

I get your point about the farmers options, but the market is small for artisan stuff just like the amount of people willing to pay for music is or will be small. You're never gonna get the majority of people to pay more than they have to no matter what the quality or ethics involved are.

 

[Space]

although people don't think they should get their food for free....

They pay as little as they can. If that equates to nothing(like with music) then it will happen. If people could get their food for free as easily as they can get music they would and they would do it without any thought for the law or ethics. Also food production companies break laws and are unethical all the time and people support it as long as they pay less.

 

[Mitchum]

Is the film industry being hit in a similar way by filesharing?

It's being hit in the exact same way. I imagine the big American studios like Warners et al will cut down on dvd manufacturing and move into direct downloads...possibly by-passing theatre releases too.

 

[shitepipe]

the obvious solution to this whole mess is to have your money made before you release your album. in which case it doesn't matter how much people pay for it.

so, slip in a few Coca-Cola references, maybe Audi if you're more of a suave singer songwriter type, or ,say, Levis or Pepe jeans if you're a young, happy-go-lucky band. basically find your demographic appeal and go for it. you'll be minted before the first mp3 rolls off the production line.

actually, now that i think about it, this probably isnt far off. music culture reduced to a corporate jingle. yea- thanks for nuthin internet.

 

[lemonbravo]

They pay as little as they can. If that equates to nothing(like with music) then it will happen. If people could get their food for free as easily as they can get music they would and they would do it without any thought for the law or ethics. Also food production companies break laws and are unethical all the time and people support it as long as they pay less.

I totally agree, but at the moment people can get music for free and some believe it should be free.
Food is not free, nor will it likely to be free any time soon.

 

[Anthony]

I download loads of stuff and listen to it once and decide whether I like it or not, I also go into shops and listen to stuff once and decide whether I like it or not, don't see the difference and I don't get this buying stuff without hearing the band first.

it was just an observation. maybe an aside to this thread. If I've bought something I try not to form an opinion unil i've listened to it about 3 or 4 times.

A musician but sweat an money into recording, someone sits a home with a crappy free mp3 and says get out and gig if you want my money... a bit like your old man dragging you out of bed on a saturday morning to mow the lawn and was the car after a week's work/school/college.

 

[hugh]

... theres no way its ever going to go back to a case of buying an album by a band and giving them money to hear it - its (i hope) just not going to happen. if you have old-fashioned fans into their music and into a band they will buy albums and pay fan club subscriptions etc. everyone else will download whatever they want and listen to it for free, maybe if they like something they'll contribute something to its creators. says i.

Well the obvious problem with that is you might then be looking at a future where all those bands and artists you discovered by downloading stop making music because they can't afford to anymore, and then there will be nothing to download except, I dunno Britney and Radiohead.

 

[lemonbravo]

Well the obvious problem with that is you might then be looking at a future where all those bands and artists you discovered by downloading stop making music because they can't afford to anymore, and then there will be nothing to download except, I dunno Britney and Radiohead.

and X-factor winners.

 

[Mitchum]

and X-factor winners.

...and artists who are less concerned with making money from their art.

 

[coast to coast]

Well the obvious problem with that is you might then be looking at a future where all those bands and artists you discovered by downloading stop making music because they can't afford to anymore, and then there will be nothing to download except, I dunno Britney and Radiohead.

While its difficult to predict, the proliferation of technology like this could make it so that more and more people can afford to produce music. Now, it mightn't be recorded on lovely 2" tape with an engineer who knows what he's doing or anything of the sort as a result, but that stuff is going to suffer as part of a new economic model, because its so uneconomic - so uneconomic that no one even produces tape any more as far as I know.

The other thing is, people will always create music because I'd imagine that for a high enough percentage of musicians, money doesn't really come into the occasion. You could talk about people not being able to create because they don't get anything in return (as a result of filesharing) but people will always do it if they really want.

 

[lemonbravo]

- so uneconomic that no one even produces tape any more as far as I know.
.

http://www.atrtape.com/
http://www.rmgi.nl/

tape is alive and well.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Well the obvious problem with that is you might then be looking at a future where all those bands and artists you discovered by downloading stop making music because they can't afford to anymore, and then there will be nothing to download except, I dunno Britney and Radiohead.

yes, i see that, it will have a negative impact but. most people (i.e. people who dont make money from music) will like it so they wont let go of it. having downloaded a load of stuff and not paid for it i do now value the importance of giving something back, im presuming that this will become a more common view point but, i agree with you to a degree. people have had their lncome pulled from under them by technology since forever (for better or worse etc)

i dunno that i believe people will stop making good music (with singing and guitars and stuff) just because theres less money to be made though. i accept that good studios and mics are expensive and whatever but i really dont see that we're looking at the end of good music, thats just silly.

 

[Lefty Frizzell]

Is the film industry being hit in a similar way by filesharing?

Its slightly different with movies.

An mp3 is still an mp3 whether its bought or shared.

A dvd with menus and extras is impossible to replicate in a single downloaded file. Watching a film on a laptop will never compare to the experience of going to the cinema.

That said the internet is flooded with promo screeners of new releases but some people will prefer to buy a dvd or go to the cinema instead of watching a compressed movie on their pc.

Sorry if this point has been made already.

 

[Anthony]

Loads of bands quit because they're broke, or simply don't have time to do it because they have to go bank to day jobs for cash.

 

[minka]

...and artists who are less concerned with making money from their art.

but for a lot of smaller artists, it's not just a matter of "not making money", it's actively losing money for their art - shelling out cash for recordings that they might never get back, etc.