[Sunday Business Post] Irish music industry hit by downloading (1 Viewer)

[aoboa]

For a fanclub you need fans ...

Exactly - that model only works for established acts.

 

[snakybus]

Does anyone who doesn't have fans sell records?

 

[billygannon]

Exactly - that model only works for established acts.

Well, you can get fans from playing gigs.

 

[Anthony]

No investment in the music....
Back in the day: when you bought your CDs or records how many times did you listen to them before deciding if you liked it or not?
Now: "Just got 1,000 mp3 files from me mate, listened to some of it once, it was shit."

 

[Anthony]

Well, you can get fans from playing gigs.

that's bull. What's a musician to do? Give away their art then spend their life calling to every house in the world playing gigs on doorsteps?

 

[lemonbravo]

Here I think Nailer's point is actually pretty valid - the difference between sharing music over the internet and sharing it with your friends is only a matter of degree.

[SIZE=-1]...I actually thought that point wasn't quite fair....i used to make mixtapes for my friends, but if I made a mix-mp3 today, that happened to contain songs from an as yet unreleased album, by a popular band, and put it up on the web for download....
....I wouldn't consider myself necessarily unpopular, but if I put that mix on a cd to give to my friends, well I don't exactly have 100,000 friends that would want my mixtape. [/SIZE]

 

[snakybus]

Anthony, I'm not sure what you mean. Billy's point seems viable, and isn't that what bands already do - gain fans through gigging? You would also gain fans in the normal way, through the media, through airplay etc. I don't see how this model would be any different in that regard. Its only difference is that it mobilises certain core fans and places them at the centre of the process, rather than at the receiving end, thereby making it possible for the music to be available to other potential fans who start off at the receiving end, i.e., buying CDs in the normal way as opposed to a subscription, and who have the option to move into the centre. The artist would still make money - it just that the production costs would be subsidised by the fans, making it less of a risky investment and minimising the influence of a middleman or label.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

that's bull. What's a musician to do? Give away their art then spend their life calling to every house in the world playing gigs on doorsteps?

bands can still do things the regular way - start off playing small gigs and if people like them progress from there to playing bigger gigs. maybe people will buy recordings at gigs, if theres enough support maybe eventually the fan club thing might work. its not that different to when you made your music and then waited for your fans to hand over money for it and small bands struggled harder than more established ones

 

[Anthony]

yea, I was exageratting, but this line of downloading defence "sure you can make money from gigs instead" is rubbish. Lots of musicians can't/don't play live.

 

[dudley]

I think the idea of a fanclub being an Artistic Patron is workable.

http://karmafan.com/

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

yea, I was exageratting, but this line of downloading defence "sure you can make money from gigs instead" is rubbish. Lots of musicians can't/don't play live.

but what is anyone gonna do about it? you cant just catch everyone and fine them, there needs to be an alternative way of support and the fan club idea is one viable (i think) option. supporting a band neednt be tied to a product either, like you pay and get to download a few songs. you could just donate something to a band you like and then who cares where you get the actual music from.

like what those karmafan lads are at - http://karmafan.com/

 

[nEiLo]

how much did mozart make on album sales?

 

[Mitchum]

No investment in the music....
Back in the day: when you bought your CDs or records how many times did you listen to them before deciding if you liked it or not?
Now: "Just got 1,000 mp3 files from me mate, listened to some of it once, it was shit."

What's your point exactly?
If someone chooses to listen to a tune once it's their business. YOU might presume someone with 1000+ mp3s on their hard-drive has a less 'authentic' or 'emotional' investment than a teenage pauper who buys say one piece of vinyl per month but *I* think that's crassly misguided sentimentalism.
If anything the proliferation of music via download has provided more exposure for more bands to more people than physical formats ever could or ever will. Surely a good thing for any artist?

 

[Space]

I download loads of stuff and listen to it once and decide whether I like it or not, I also go into shops and listen to stuff once and decide whether I like it or not, don't see the difference and I don't get this buying stuff without hearing the band first.

 

[snakybus]

What's your point exactly?
If someone chooses to listen to a tune once it's their business. YOU might presume someone with 1000+ mp3s on their hard-drive has a less 'authentic' or 'emotional' investment than a teenage pauper who buys say one piece of vinyl per month but *I* think that's crassly misguided sentimentalism.
If anything the proliferation of music via download has provided more exposure for more bands to more people than physical formats ever could or ever will. Surely a good thing for any artist?

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I'm not so sure. I think for a lot of people, it's just a case of building up their music collection. Me, I listen to one album every couple of months that I consider worthwhile. And most of this is because of friends who tell me "oh you should check this out". Music is a community thing, and a referral from a friend is worth a thousand downloads, or a thousand references to bands in the "music I like" box on your myspace page (usually preceded by "music is my life....in no particular order....."insert gazillion band names, preferably stuff that is just out this week). Downloaded depersonalises the community experience, just as the internet has depersonalised all aspects of community experiences.

 

[dudley]

in the main, i don't think your britneys and your coldplays are hurt by illegal downloading, the majority of their revenue stream comes from their respective endorsements of happy meals etc - the actual music sale provides only a tiny part of the entire financial package. doesn't make it right that the music is being freely swapped, but ironically it probably actually adds to branding worth of acts at that level

it's the smaller indie artists who are definitely being hurt by filesharing. someone like jason molina dedicates his life to playing live and making records, and like amon tobin he's stated that filesharing is making things really hard for him. if he were to get sick and not be able to play live, it's game over

and as anthony said, there are plenty of acts who can't tour, whats the answer for them?

 

[Vinnie]

Tag-wise I totally own this thread. Anyone who wants to post in it from here on in has to pay me a small fee. Please forward all payments to my accountant Nailer. Thanks guys.

 

[Flux]

Stating the obvious here but the vast majority of bands/musicians lose money playing gigs. For every gig you make a couple of quid on, four others are either done as favours to other bands, no-one turns up or you spend whatever you get on petrol/taxis/coupla pints afterwards.

If you talk to touring bands from other countries, bands that are getting great reviews everywhere, they'll tell you even they are making a pittance. People should nip this line of thinking that bands will survive from gigging alone in the bud. Especially bands without record deals and tour support.

No-one playing music these days is in it for the money, that's for sure.

 

[Space]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I'm not so sure. I think for a lot of people, it's just a case of building up their music collection. Me, I listen to one album every couple of months that I consider worthwhile. And most of this is because of friends who tell me "oh you should check this out". Music is a community thing, and a referral from a friend is worth a thousand downloads, or a thousand references to bands in the "music I like" box on your myspace page (usually preceded by "music is my life....in no particular order....."insert gazillion band names, preferably stuff that is just out this week). Downloaded depersonalises the community experience, just as the internet has depersonalised all aspects of community experiences.

But this is more a sympton of the internet and globalization (of culture in this case) rather than where we get music and how much(if anything) we pay for it even though both are explicitly connected.

This is part of a bigger picture again which includes the devaluing of stuff like food and clothing.

You could probably equate the increase of sales of organic food with the increase in sales of vinyl and tehincrease in diy stuff with farners markets if you wanted as well.

 

[snakybus]

But this is more a sympton of the internet and globalization (of culture in this case) rather than where we get music and how much(if anything) we pay for it even though both are explicitly connected.

This is part of a bigger picture again which includes the devaluing of stuff like food and clothing.

You could probably equate the increase of sales of organic food with the increase in sales of vinyl and tehincrease in diy stuff with farners markets if you wanted as well.

Oh yes, I agree it's a separate discussion. It's just a bugbear of mine, is all.