So...Against me to play TBMC (1 Viewer)

[Problematic]

"against me! are astute businessmen"......Dylan, whoever the fuck said that sounds more like a fucking conspiracy theorist than a fan of the "underground music scene". That post just makes the person look like a crazed lunatic who's looknig into everything far too much. By that arguement you could say that thats the reason EVERY band "signs" to FAT (they don't really sign to be honest, its merely a verbal agreement that they will release a record on FAT).

I made that post, and I wasn't looking into anything too much, it was a business decision for Against Me! to sign with Fat. If it wasn't about business, then why didn't they stick with No Idea ? To say it wasn't a business decision is rediculous. They are astute businessmen, they signed with Fat but are still distributed by Sony, the best of both worlds. As I said earlier I don't give a shit about bands signing to majors or making money, but it is a different story when said band is only in a position of popularity to sign to a larger label on the back of years of proclaiming a forceful anti-business agenda, an agenda that ultimately turned out to be a gimmick. C'mon, you really trying to tell me playing Starbucks sponsored gigs isn't about business ? As for Fat and no contracts ? I dunno where you are getting your info from but everybody on Fat is signed to a contract, granted with a lot of bands it is rolling one record contracts but they are still contracts. If you think a band and label are making "verbal agreements" on records that could sell into the hundreds of thousands you're the crazed lunatic not me.

 

[W.]

The pogues never really claimed to be radical and diy, if you look at against me!'s lyrics they have some very uncompromising anti-corporate and DIY lyrics.


That said, I'm not really that bothered.

 

[rape the drummer]

I made that post, and I wasn't looking into anything too much, it was a business decision for Against Me! to sign with Fat. If it wasn't about business, then why didn't they stick with No Idea ? To say it wasn't a business decision is rediculous. They are astute businessmen, they signed with Fat but are still distributed by Sony, the best of both worlds. As I said earlier I don't give a shit about bands signing to majors or making money, but it is a different story when said band is only in a position of popularity to sign to a larger label on the back of years of proclaiming a forceful anti-business agenda, an agenda that ultimately turned out to be a gimmick. C'mon, you really trying to tell me playing Starbucks sponsored gigs isn't about business ? As for Fat and no contracts ? I dunno where you are getting your info from but everybody on Fat is signed to a contract, granted with a lot of bands it is rolling one record contracts but they are still contracts. If you think a band and label are making "verbal agreements" on records that could sell into the hundreds of thousands you're the crazed lunatic not me.

Ha.

Why should they have stuck with no idea anyway? its not their home label- they went there to release 1 album and a couple of ep's, they went to FAT to release 2 albums- its not a crime to sleep around a bit is it? i don't think anyone really minded em signig to FAT because its not a major label, the problem people have is their signnig to Myspace records and the exposure their getting there i also don't think they could ever have envisaged the sucess they would achieve from going to FAT cos most bands while they do get slightly more exposure within the punk scene don't go further than that. That's what make's your whole "master-minded business plan" so far fetched. FAT are notorious for their no strings attached easy going attitude to signing bands, maybe they do sign some form of contract but there is only ever an obligation to release 1 record, for example D4 are releasing their next record on no idea but may return to FAT again. And so what if FAT is distributed by Red, tons of fucking labels are- it doesn't make them a fucking major label, if your running a record label and making your living off it, employing people, etc. you'll need to sell the actual records your making. without distributing to a large audience it'd be impossible- its a good way for kids to get into the whole punk scene in the first place anyway...there has to be a bridge somewhere otherwise punk becomes a sub- culture rather than the counter- culture most poeple would like to think it is.

Against Me! have evolved and changed over the years. They started as 2 guys in a basement bashing around on a shitty drum-kit and an acoustic guitar. They've worked hard over the years, they've made some excellent music and have gotten some bad press from the punk scene that i don't think was deserved, they admitted openly after "Axl Rose" that their views had changed, they were now willing to go further with the band in order to gain a wider fan base but they did so without changing their sound which is more than can be said for so many bands that go the same route, far too much is being made out of this, so to quote a once great man: "lets stop the fightin and the feudin and get down to some lovin "

 

[Dylan]

Compare Don't Lose Touch to any of the stuff prior to Eternal Cowboy. I think they have most definitely changed their sound, but i think thats a tiny point.

the one good thing i would have said about them is that maybe kids will buy Crime and stumble into DIY through Plan-It-X. However AM have asked Plan-It-X to stop repressing Crime as Sabot (Jordan) wants to put it out.

As regards double standards, like Weeler said Against Me meant so much because of what they sung about and what they've become is disgustingly ironic. The Pogues never claimed to be DIY or anarchists, therefor its irrelevant. Besides i wouldnt pay 50 quid into a show. We got our pogues tickets practically for free.

 

[RSJ]

Here, rape, leave it man. You may as well be banging your head against a wall as talking to some of these folk. Eirecore isn't the sort of place where level headed conversations evolve, it's more of a punk pissing match. Don't waste yer finger-skin.

EDIT: I should point out that's not directed at diylan - e's alright by me.

 

[Rachel666]

Put it like this... people like Dylan were attracted to Against Me!'s music because it of its blatant go-DIY lyrics. Against Me disowning DIY is like bikini kill singing about wanting to be submissive sex slaves or the pogues singing about how great those 800 years were.

I find is so confusing, perhaps i'm idealistic because I haven't been into it as long as you or ever had a band. I only started listening to Against Me in may but I still feel a bit let down. Saying signing to FAT or myspace is ok because they get more exposure doesn't make sense. What about all the DIY bands who never signed and managed to keep a large steady fanbase?

I liked against me because they were making these catchy accesable songs about living "the DIY dream", it was very uplifting and inspiring to someone who wasn't familiar with it. It was an introduction. We still sing their songs because they're fun. Their new beliefs didn't change the music they made, but you must realise that it was disheartening for some of their fans who really looked up to them. My lesson is learnt and I try not to put people up on pedestals.

I'm not interested in starting a punk pissing match, if you'd care to reply rather than leave nasty anonymous de-repping comments, I'd be very happy. thanks

 

[bohs punks]

what i don't get is why you get on the one hand the extreme promotion of "go diy" by some peopel on the one hand and then the support given for corporate rock on the other hand, i find it strange and illogical but each to their own.

is diy a principle to apply to all elements of punk rock culture or is it just apply to the parts of punk rock culture who ever said they were diy.

1988 - " im diy
1998 "im not diy anymore"

bad

1988 " im not diy
1998 "im still not diy"
good

is that it ?

anywya this thread is too long so whatever.

 

[Rachel666]

what i don't get is why you get on the one hand the extreme promotion of "go diy" by some peopel on the one hand and then the support given for corporate rock on the other hand, i find it strange and illogical but each to their own.

is diy a principle to apply to all elements of punk rock culture or is it just apply to the parts of punk rock culture who ever said they were diy.

1988 - " im diy
1998 "im not diy anymore"

bad

1988 " im not diy
1998 "im still not diy"
good

is that it ?

anywya this thread is too long so whatever.

It is each to their own. Hypocrisy is easily criticized but we're all guilty of it. Music, beliefs, lifestyle... its been discussed to death. I hope you're not suggesting diy is a phase. I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[bohs punks]

im not suggesting that at all, just that i dont get why the pogues gig should be viewed differently than against me gig tis all.

 

[spuded]

i couldnt give two fucks about this whole business anyway, i enjoyed their second album more than thier first because that 'baby im an anarchist' is possibly one of the most fuckin annoying songs ever written, and people love singing along to it like muppets, that song just always really got on my nerves, its just coffee shop revolutionary bullshit, 'oh we are so hardcore' fuck the liberals' blah blah blah...

 

[Janer]

This is the most god damned worse thread ever, people get over this band, whoever the fck they are/were

Let's listen to Special Duties live at CBGB's instead.

 

[Shay HT]

I'm pretty indifferent about this whole thing. All ages gig is good, ticket price while not cheap, is by no means expensive compared to what you'd pay for other bands at TBMC, Ambassador or Point. TBMC is a bit sucky, but then again where isn't?!

Sure AM were DIY and sung about it, but people and bands move on.... they want to grow, play to more people - the City Arts gig was great but does a band want to play to those forever? Does a band want to "get by" forever? If you're offered a record deal (a hardcore/punk band is never going to make money from the actual 'deal') - and i don't see much of a difference between diy and major labels, as in the end punk/hardcore releases are pretty much distributed by the same companies no matter what label they're on; there is never any real promotion given to punk/hardcore stuff, i get sent CDs all the time from diy and 'major' labels (rarely from the label), i get most of my stuff thru a 1 guy promo company in the uk that does promo for the bands/labels.

When Sick Of It All played here in '99 - TBMC, £12 which would be about €16? - a band i would consider fairly diy..... have been on FAT, MCD put them on, they had to sleep in their bus at the airport, they were going to have to wear their merch on the plane to iceland for their last gig cause they couldn't afford to pay the extra freight.... would they still be considered diy?

Take Agnostic Front, one of the first hardcore bands, they were/are/whatever DIY, they've been signed to various labels over the years, diy and major, they've played to 50 people, and played to 50,000.... and after 20+ years of playing they are "doing alright".... but when they tour its the cds and shirts they sell on the night that pays for stuff.

HT: Given that people download, do you think its still a good time for hardcore, people still come to the shows buy the CDs, so you're not like living in the street...
Roger: We do alright, and thank god, its taken a long time, we do enough to go on these tours world wide and go to different places. People need to understand that its expensive, even us getting to Ireland we have to go through all these ferries, and bring the whole tour party, things add up, you know what I mean. Not like in American, we just jump in a van and go, we own our own van, we own our own trailer, its fantastic, no expenses, just play. We go overseas , the minute we step into any country overseas we're already in debt 7-10,000 dollars, between airline tickets, equipment rental and van. Its a scary damn thought. All those bands do that, every single hardcore band that goes out there. Or vice versa. And thank god that people still support and love the band and they support us and its really not in the CDs where it counts, its really in the merch and whatever the band has for sale, whether its CDs or merch, is where it counts, most of the bands are really getting by with that money. Thats where the support really counts.

 

[Janer]

Proper Punk bands should never want to move on and play bigger venues, look at Colin he is as happy as a sandman with his lot, and I know that Conor/Freebooters turned down The Submarine bar cos it held more then 300.
;]

 

[trev]

why does someone from hope come on here and give out about green day.

circles we go round in i'm sure of. delete this thread. its painful.

i went to see against me at the all ages gig and enjoyed it. (hell we were back in limerick just after 12 that same night). i'm gonna go see them aagin at tbmc. big feckin deal...you know?

by the way....whats that song "justin" about on the new album? i cant get into the song itself but the lyrics seem to be pretty heavy....

 

[Janer]

Trev u would sell your soul to Londis if you thought you could get after hours service on iceberg lettuce

/shame

 

[kollin]

"A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life"
- Muhammed Ali

 

[trev]

Trev u would sell your soul to Londis if you thought you could get after hours service on iceberg lettuce

/shame

my soul is long sold.

 

[Janer]

/notes Trevors smilies are the very colour of said vegtables.........

 

[Shorty]

theres a load of bullshit in this thread - for example people complaining about this but then going to the pogues the other night to see a madly expensive greatest hits show in a bouncer laden barn promoted by mcd

Yeah, it's time to name and shame these weekend punks! Oi! Oi!

http://punk4it.proboards29.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1135099524


This is a very bad, incestuous, scene (or possibly just laughing to myself *going insane*) injoke!

!ironyyy

 

[Manta Ray]

and if you read down the thread, you'll see that the only reason I'm going is I got free tickets. I wouldnt be able to afford to go to big shows even if i wanted to. I suppose this is going on my punk cred record then? balls