Shannon (1 Viewer)

[Corm]

Originally posted by the strange guy
Like after taking a heroic dose of mushrooms she went down to change her name by deed pole to the name of her spiritual guardian who resides on the astral plane. Either that or she thinks she's a planet. I've met her before and she's sound enough. But she insists on being called Venus. Fair enough, the ladies can call me Gee-Master if it makes them happy, but giving yourself nicknames is stupid. Unless it's on the internet.

I met her before and she was a spa. It was in Genoa and she was giving myself and another person a load of shit for what coarse of direct action we chose. She was wearing a fairy costume at the time.

 

[mazzyianne]

jesus, what have I started????


"I suggested what I think should not happen - that in itself is an alternative to what is happening"

oh come on... no it's not

Also I'm not saying that we should make a joke out of serious issues or make protesting "chic" and I hate that accusation. The majority of people are completely apathetic and it's really difficult to get their attention about issues like this for even 5 mins. If dressing up in a costume or spraypainting a plane or something or calling yourself Venus and sitting in a tree will make someone think about an issue (although I have to agree with Corm on his last comment), go for it.
I think anyone who would be put off by the fact that people look silly on RTE dont care enough to start with. I mean if you dont like the way people are handling an issue, get out there and start doing it the way you want.

It's impossible to please everyone with these things, at the last protest some people thought we hadn't done enough, we should have gone n smashed something, others were so pissed off with the fence being knocked down they said they would never come back. Everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions, but you cant ban camels or jugglers or socialists, much as you might want to.
Just as long as everyone does their own thing and protests about this sham of a war then fair dues to them. It's nice to see people give a shit, unlike 90% of the population.

 

[Shorty]

I'll just re-iterate what I said on the politics board.

Nuke 'em all. Take the oil!

Your Politics Are Boring As Fuck

And saying not to do something isn't quite the same as an alternative, an alternative is an action, not a "non-action",

Pete, what you're doing is a lot like Socratic dialogue, the problem is Socratic dialogue is often better at revealing ignorance than producing answers. See steve albino's quote.

To quote Nietzsche, " Politics may one day be found to be so vulgar as to be described along with all party and daily journalism, under the heading: 'Prostitution of the Intellect'."

A skeptical, cynical view of the media also taken by situationists.

 

[deena]

down with hippies

right - well - i was there. it was a sham. I think that going to SHannon is a good idea but there wans't enough organisation at the protest itself. When someone with a loud hailer is saying 'who wants to speak?' then you begin to wonder. That Venus girl (Venus being the Roman goddess of love <cupids mum>) is a fool and even thought that hugging each other and making one big circle in front of the terminal would do something.. it was sad. But for the 18th Jan I'm planning to be more prepared .. a map would be great to start with!

 

[pete]

Originally posted by Shorty

Pete, what you're doing is a lot like Socratic dialogue, the problem is Socratic dialogue is often better at revealing ignorance than producing answers. See steve albino's quote.

To quote Nietzsche, " Politics may one day be found to be so vulgar as to be described along with all party and daily journalism, under the heading: 'Prostitution of the Intellect'."

A skeptical, cynical view of the media also taken by situationists.

Ask me bollocks.

How's that?

 

[pete]

Originally posted by mazzyianne
jesus, what have I started????


"I suggested what I think should not happen - that in itself is an alternative to what is happening"

oh come on... no it's not

I really don't see what's so hard to understand about what i'm saying here.

- I refer to people in fancy dress.
- I suggest they do more harm than good.
- I suggest an alternative course of action - that they stop looking like fools.

Or, to put it another way - to NOT do what they are doing is BETTER than to DO it... that is in this situation, the ALTERNATIVE to dressing up like a pantomime camel, as in NOT dressing up as a pantomime camel, is the better choice. Can you see the ALTERNATIVE i'm talking about? Or would you prefer i just suggested alternatives like giraffes, elephants and pot bellied pigs?


Not enough? Here's some more suggestions -

The people organising these protests? Get together and select a spokesperson. Pick someone who is familiar with the issues, is eloquent, and can speak well to journalists on camera, is willing to focus on these issues instead of their own agenda, doesn't look like the kind of person joe public would cross the street to avoid & doesn't have a hippy name.

Or how about getting in touch with that crazy limerick law lecturer guy who seems to have sworn to defend the constitution and take this sort of shit to court?

Or how about collating the evidence gathered by Refuelling Peace on what's really going on in Shannon and approaching more "mainstream" news organisations with it (ie something taken a bit more seriously than Indymedia by the man in the street)? Do they have video footage of actual US soldiers in Shannon? If not, why not?

 

[steve albino]

Originally posted by pete
Ask me bollocks.

How's that?

I told you, you should have put this on the politics board before it got out of hand. Now you've gone and lost your temper with the kids...

Are you banned now?

 

[steve albino]

Originally posted by pete
I really don't see what's so hard to understand about what i'm saying here.

- I refer to people in fancy dress.
- I suggest they do more harm than good.
- I suggest an alternative course of action - that they stop looking like fools.

Or, to put it another way - to NOT do what they are doing is BETTER than to DO it... that is in this situation, the ALTERNATIVE to dressing up like a pantomime camel, as in NOT dressing up as a pantomime camel, is the better choice. Can you see the ALTERNATIVE i'm talking about? Or would you prefer i just suggested alternatives like giraffes, elephants and pot bellied pigs?


Not enough? Here's some more suggestions -

The people organising these protests? Get together and select a spokesperson. Pick someone who is familiar with the issues, is eloquent, and can speak well to journalists on camera, is willing to focus on these issues instead of their own agenda, doesn't look like the kind of person joe public would cross the street to avoid & doesn't have a hippy name.

Or how about getting in touch with that crazy limerick law lecturer guy who seems to have sworn to defend the constitution and take this sort of shit to court?

Or how about collating the evidence gathered by Refuelling Peace on what's really going on in Shannon and approaching more "mainstream" news organisations with it (ie something taken a bit more seriously than Indymedia by the man in the street)? Do they have video footage of actual US soldiers in Shannon? If not, why not?

Yessssssssssssssssss!!!!! Goan the Pete!

 

[Shorty]

Originally posted by pete
Ask me bollocks.

How's that?

Not bad. Gave me a laugh. Two thumbs up!

 

[pete]

Originally posted by steve albino
I told you, you should have put this on the politics board before it got out of hand. Now you've gone and lost your temper with the kids...

Are you banned now?

It's not my call to move it.

And yeah, life would certainly be easier if i banned myself. I tried it before, but i couldn't stay away.

 

[mazzyianne]

It's impossible to please everyone with these things, at the last protest some people thought we hadn't done enough, we should have gone n smashed something, others were so pissed off with the fence being knocked down they said they would never come back. Everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions, but you cant ban camels or jugglers or socialists, much as you might want to.
Just as long as everyone does their own thing and protests about this sham of a war then fair dues to them. It's nice to see people give a shit, unlike 90% of the population. [/B][/QUOTE]

Just to make sure you got that point.

Plus, there have been articles on the plane spotting, even exerpts from Tims, plane spotters diary, all kinds of shit in the mainstream news.
But when they go to a protest, the pick up on what they want to. Venus always gets the media attention, because she looks like a freak and talks like a crazy hippy, and , she loves media attention. I'm not defending the camels, I'm saying that you cant stop people from doing what they want, and sitting at a computer bitching about them isn't going to change their minds. If you want it to be done differently, get out there and do it differently. I'm sure there's lots of people out there who agree with u and think group hugs wont save the world, I know I;m one of them.

But there does have to be something else. So people dont dress up as camels, dont juggle, dont facepaint or do graffiti, dont look like hippies, dont hug or hold hands or sing crap give-peace-a-chance style songs, what do they do? Just stand there?
So I dont think saying what they shouldn't do is an alternative, sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Or we could get everyone to stand in a big circle and think positive thoughts until there is no more disagreement.

 

[the strange guy]

Not dressing up as a camel IS an alternative! I have to say, that, along with the 'RTS Song' which was on indymedia not only make us all look like total idiots, but can even demoralise us. (The RTS song went along the lines of Íf you go down to the quays today, you're in for a big surprise.. Teddy Bear picnic style. Fucking awful)

I agree that simply by being there is better than not being there. But when things like that get organised then subsequently hijacked by Globalise Resistance, the Socialist Workers Party and the Anti-War Movement (Which are all the same group essentially-just like Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God). People are no longer *just* going there to protest about US troops or war for oil. They are there, in the media's eyes, to show their support for the above organisations too. A legion of disenfranchised youth with raised fists, Che T-Shirts and a copy of the SWP paper rolled up under their arm amkes a great story. The Irish government is a puppet for US foreign policy, and well meaning protesters are puppets for GR, SWP & AWM. They use people like us to make up the numbers.

Act like hippies! Paint your faces! Throw rocks at troops and paint on their planes! Just don't do it near the SWP, as they'll either take the credit or blame you, depending on which way the media is swaying that particular day. They are vampires, sucking any kind of autonomy young people have and replace it with *their* ideas, *their* slogans and *their* objectives. The best thing about them is that not only are most of them from Trinity, but I seriously doubt *any* of them have done more than one year's labour.

Chuir Ceist Mo Geanglí.

 

[mazzyianne]

yeah, we could hand out badges saying 'not in the SWP', Or wear t-shirts. I think the media and the public think the SWP are in charge of everything. I hate when they give their banners to kids who haven't a clue who they are or what they stand for.

 

[deco[y]]

Originally posted by the strange guy
Have to agree with ya, it is pretty much useless if you have to sit someone down and explain exactly what it means. Arty farty eejits coming up with schemes like that aren't going to change much apart from diverting attention from the real issues. They are shooting themselves in the foot and are leaving themselves open to abuse from the media etc. And that arab/camel stunt? With that kind of logic, why not dress up as angry leprechauns while running to the fence? Fuck me. Direct Action not Art Action!

Nothing wrong with a bit of street theatre to keep moral up for the people (meself included) who made the 4 hour bus journey down there and stood around in the cold and rain, scoping that fookin' fence out and hoping upon hope we might just catch the cops off guard. But with about a 100 of them there, we had no chance.

"Direct action.." you call for. Did you go down that day or are you just blowing hot air while you give out about what others are doing and you sit around reading the Sunday papers that report on how the inspections are going well? If you did, fair play but why didn't you do your own direct action. Everyone down there was entitled to show their protest whatever way they wanted to.

If you didn't, then your criticism has no legitimatcy. It's bullshit.

-decoy

 

[deco[y]]

Re: down with hippies

Originally posted by deena
right - well - i was there. it was a sham. I think that going to SHannon is a good idea but there wans't enough organisation at the protest itself. When someone with a loud hailer is saying 'who wants to speak?' then you begin to wonder. That Venus girl (Venus being the Roman goddess of love <cupids mum>) is a fool and even thought that hugging each other and making one big circle in front of the terminal would do something.. it was sad. But for the 18th Jan I'm planning to be more prepared .. a map would be great to start with!

I agree with this criticisms. Huge group hug *shudder* jaysus, what must the pigs have being thinking ("these fucks need a right good kick up the arsh and to lay off the Jamaician rollies"? : Ed)?

And re the map, on your frustrated walk back to the bus, those mad up for it local kids showed us a nice way to the fence that was completely away from where any of the cops were. They were at us to go take it down there but it was only meself and another lad and we figured we'll keep it for next time.

-decoy

 

[deco[y]]

Originally posted by steve albino
Yessssssssssssssssss!!!!! Goan the Pete!

seconded. so when you starting Pete?