Sexism in Dublin's music scene...discuss. (1 Viewer)

[LuvChild]

Originally posted by Shorty
*groan*Bad Penny Model has small hands and he's not publicly a girl.... But then again he doesnt use them for playing guitar......

Ummm.......

And yeah condescending people in record shops is not confined to girls I find that its often the female staff memebers who are most condescending towards customers.....

I dunno maybe its hormonal......
Or some kind of territorial thing....

 

[Morn]

Originally posted by Psychotic no. 2

Oh, by the by, I believe there was a post on phantom last week debating whether girls can play guitar or not. I couldn't bring myself to read it - too upsetting and all that. But I hear someone put forth the "their hands are too small" theory. Man oh man.

I posted that topic on the Phantom board and I'm not ashamed to admit it. In it I asked why girls play less electric guitar than boys - and I think it's a valid question. Yes some of the replies were a bit dodgy but I'm still curious...

The point is that I know almost as many female guitarists as male but as their primary instrument the girls tend to choose acoustic guitar whereas the boys tend to choose electric.

So sorry you couldnae bring yourself to read it but that's what I was asking


On topic of the rest of this stuff - someone made the point that girls should not be promoted for just being girls and I agree 100%. Positive discrimination is still discrimination and it really bugs me - it was suggested by Thomas in some of his comments. People should get gigs based on talent and that kinda schtuff - the fact that you're making divisions into boys and girls I think leads to sexism. No band gets stuff done for them... possibly excepting Louis Walsh's proteges but even they have to work bloody hard to get his attention. I don't think it's hard for girls to play successfully in bands - it's hard for everyone - takes a decent level of dedication and commitment. There are less girls on the scene because less have tried. That's all. Not girls can't do it or girls encounter special problems. Just less have got around to trying to be in a band.

Although depends on the scene you're describing actually cos every orchestra I've been in and all my music lectures in college were way female weighted - I'm talking 80/20 percentages...

 

[Knacker]

Originally posted by aoifed
Worst I've experienced is people presuming that I'm not promoting or DJing 'coz I'm a lass... ie:

"So when's the DJ arriving" or "Let me talk to whoever's running this thing"

I'm pretty sure that was me. Ah well....

Discussion boards like these are dominated by men who want to discuss topics.
Men are topical by nature. Consider the way two men, who are total strangers, can have a long conversation (or indeed maintain a prolonged platonic relationship), without ever mentioning any details of their private lives. They could spend their whole time discussing topics like football, politics or music or anything else. Indeed some men will say that a fella is their best friend without knowing if his friend has any brothers or sisters. And when they start talking, they both want to show how much they know about the subject - it's a macho thing.
So when it comes to discussing a topic like music, men will try to out-do the others by displaying their knowledge of a particular field. Pavement put it really well: "I saw another band just the other day, a special new band". Guys will tell people how many albums they own, how eclectic their music tastes are and how interesting and innovative their music instruments are. It's male bravado. In essence, a body builder showing off his muscles is exactly the same as a greasy indie-boy telling his mates about some obscure Japanese import he's just got. It's fetishism...

So when it comes to discussions about music men tend to dominate... because they have to show off. But this doesn't mean that there's a lack of women involved in the Dublin and Irish music scene, or a lack of women going to gigs. They don't go on about to their mates... they're not show-offs. What I've found among girls involved in the Irish music scene is they tend to do stuff, as opposed to talking about it and doing it.

But I'm generalising of course.

And Electrelane's Gabriel will prove that women can indeed play guitars very well....

 

[Shorty]

quote:
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Originally posted by Shorty
*groan*Bad Penny Model has small hands and he's not publicly a girl.... But then again he doesnt use them for playing guitar......
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Originally posted by LuvChild !!!

Way to bring the tone of the conversation down LuvChild!
You were probably drunk when you wrote that, so I forgive you.

 

[LuvChild]

There aint no probably about it shorty me aul mucker!

 

[spiritualtramp]

Originally posted by Knacker
I'm pretty sure that was me. Ah well....

Discussion boards like these are dominated by men who want to discuss topics.
Men are topical by nature. Consider the way two men, who are total strangers, can have a long conversation (or indeed maintain a prolonged platonic relationship), without ever mentioning any details of their private lives. They could spend their whole time discussing topics like football, politics or music or anything else. Indeed some men will say that a fella is their best friend without knowing if his friend has any brothers or sisters. And when they start talking, they both want to show how much they know about the subject - it's a macho thing.
So when it comes to discussing a topic like music, men will try to out-do the others by displaying their knowledge of a particular field. Pavement put it really well: "I saw another band just the other day, a special new band". Guys will tell people how many albums they own, how eclectic their music tastes are and how interesting and innovative their music instruments are. It's male bravado. In essence, a body builder showing off his muscles is exactly the same as a greasy indie-boy telling his mates about some obscure Japanese import he's just got. It's fetishism...

I really agree with this.
I've found quite a lot of my male mates to be very competitive about their record collections.one guy in particular gets pissed off if somebody purchases the same records as him.

 

[spiritualtramp]

Originally posted by Lolo
Most of the points I wanted to raise have been raised already, but I'd like to second a few things:

1) Out-and-out sexism from people in music shops (both instrument and record shops, I should add) - this is particularly bad in Dublin but I have experienced it elsewhere

do any of the ladies on the board agree with this?
if so , which shops do you find to be sexist?

I have never experienced sexism in any of the record shops in Dublin.

 

[Juno]

Originally posted by spiritualtramp
do any of the ladies on the board agree with this?
if so , which shops do you find to be sexist?

I have never experienced sexism in any of the record shops in Dublin.

I've experienced extreme rudeness which could be put down to sexism but could be just their charming sales technique. I bought a bass once and had to stand there for about 10 minutes before the bastard behind the counter could be bothered actually, y'know, taking my money and stuff. I would've walked if I hadn't needed it for a gig about 2 hours later. Surprise, surprise that was Music Maker. Other places are mostly grand though they like throwing completely unnecessary 'technical' terms into the conversation (which I find is best dealt with by nodding gravely and stroking your chin so they think you're one of them )

 

[eclectichoney]

the chin stroking is *always* good

 

[davehagnothag]

HAG IS SEXIST MUSIC. WE WILL NEVER SING ANY SONGS BECAUSE YOU HAVE STOLEN OUR VOICE

 

[silo]

aww... this is what i miss on thumped...

i regularly spout nerd indie shite to my girlfriend. she forgives me, and bears the whole thing with stoic determination.

"slint had two albums and an untitled 10", which you can also get on 7" but it's a bootleg."

"oh."

this really happened.

am i sexyist now?

seriously, buh... thomas, maybe define sexism, or rather what you regard to be its manifestations in dublin. is positive discrimination right?

plus... what spiritualtramp said. i have to agree with her now, or i'll never see him again.

oh, and speedy's still a prick.

 

[fluffy]

Just one other point on the sexism thang...

The recent Kurt Cobain anniversary thing brought to mind how relatively pro-woman things were back in those days of grrunge and riot grrrl. The likes of Kurt automatically assumed there was sexism in the scene so went out of his way to avoid it.

In recent years laddism has become lots more acceptable, and ironically sexist jokes, and being fashionably apolitical has been the order of the day in underground circles.

I don't think these people mean anything by it, and sometimes it can be quite funny. Some of it, i reckon, masks real misogyny, and I can see why it can be daunting for girls to get involved.

 

[MDR]

...em, I don't believe that having ideas or being creative comes from male bravado. Making music doesn't have to be a show-off peacock-type exercise. The reasons people make music are varied I'm sure, but suggesting that it's a manifestation of the male ego just simply doesn't account for the large number of beautiful songs in my record collection.

 

[Anthony]

yawn

 

[Ex-User (1146)]

it's not someone's fault if they're sexy. 'best way to have yourself taken seriously as a musician is to get ugly. otherwise people will just say yummy and not listen to the mad lyrics.

 

[Speed Racer]

Originally posted by silo
[B...........oh, and speedy's still a prick. [/B]

A charming Prick.








cheers Silo.....by the way, nerding over any subject is just annoying. Thats why nerds aren't cool buddy.

 

[stunning]

Originally posted by LuvChild
Kylie sucks...........
And Britney swallows

Aren't those GOOD things? Or would you like those people NOT to do that to you? Personally, I like being sucked...

This is a great, yet simple example of the institutional sexism that I was alluding to at the beginning of this thread. I don't think people even know when their being sexist...its so accepted, so normal.

Regardless, Kylie is 100 times better than Britney. Trust me, I know.

Thomas

 

[Speed Racer]

Originally posted by stunning
Aren't those GOOD things? Or would you like those people NOT to do that to you? Personally, I like being sucked...

This is a great, yet simple example of the institutional sexism that I was alluding to at the beginning of this thread. I don't think people even know when their being sexist...its so accepted, so normal.

Regardless, Kylie is 100 times better than Britney. Trust me, I know.

Thomas

The day that society is 100% Politically Correct is the day we'll be a pile of cold corpses, after The Raelians slaughter us with their army of beautiful Sexy clones.

 

[Lolo]

Originally posted by eclectichoney
the chin stroking is *always* good

But we don't have beards (well, most of us...) so it's not nearly as convincing.

Ed: He he, I think I remember you ransacking my vinyl in the music centre, don't worry, you were quite polite about it and didn't try and steal anything (which has happened - somebody once tried to scarper with my Sticky-Fingers-with-a-zip-on-it).

Hapi: Yes, I'll give Willy a big juicy one from you. (You're talking about a fruit smoothie, yeah?)

Actually, when I was moaning about sexism in record shops, I was really talking about experiences of my youth, so maybe it was an age-ism thing.

 

[stunning]

Originally posted by Speed Racer
The day that society is 100% Politically Correct is the day we'll be a pile of cold corpses, after The Raelians slaughter us with their army of beautiful Sexy clones.

Speedy, Darling. That is such a bullshit cop out. I hate the term Politically Correct or PC. Know why? Because the fucking CHRISTIAN RIGHT WING in America made the term up to keep the noisy rable rousers who were choking for liberation quiet. It's sole purpose is to devalue the cause of the oppressed in their struggle for freedom.
Don't be afraid of speaking the truth about the alienation of our societies. They'll call you PC and use it as an insult...its just ego games. Don't believe the hype.

If someone says you're stepping on their toes...what's wrong with saying..."Oh wow, sorry...I didn't realize I was doing that. Can you show me a way to stand here and not step on your toes?"

Call me PC all you want, it doesn't matter...I'll still spend my days tearing down a society that uses a terrorizing slave-based economy to keep the poor and the marginalized powerless over their own lives.

Brick by brick. (Or in my case, prick by prick...couldn't resist!)

Love,

Thomas