Religion and schools (1 Viewer)

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Froog, just out of interest, did you go to a catholic school and if so are you now atheist and if so, why?
 

Froog

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Froog, just out of interest, did you go to a catholic school and if so are you now atheist and if so, why?
ya went to a catholic secondary school, not really religous now, but not an atheist either. whether or not the school was catholic had no influence on my post-school beliefs at all. the fact that my school was catholic made no real difference to me, in fact you would hardly know it was "catholic" at all, religon class in first year was just a discusison on morals and safe sex and shit that no one really paid attention to.
 

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ya went to a catholic secondary school, not really religous now, but not an atheist either. whether or not the school was catholic had no influence on my post-school beliefs at all. the fact that my school was catholic made no real difference to me, in fact you would hardly know it was "catholic" at all, religon class in first year was just a discusison on morals and safe sex and shit that no one really paid attention to.
Sounds like an amazing school. Let me ask, do you think its acceptable that parents without any catholic beliefs should be forced to baptise their kids just to get them to attend such a school, when that school is the only option for the child to attend?
 

ann post

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Froog, just out of interest, did you go to a catholic school and if so are you now atheist and if so, why?
see that ian - not replying to you specifically - but that sorta question. i'd say the problem might be in what they dont teach because they have religious affiliations, rather then what they do teach because of it.
 

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I've my chisler down for Educate together.Thats grand.If she has to go to a catholic secondary,no worries,she's only 3.5 and already knows that churchs are full of wankers who believe in some chancer who thinks he's cooler than Santy.So she''ll be able to stick it to them in religion class bigtime.

Either way she'll be going to secondary school.
 

Froog

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Sounds like an amazing school. Let me ask, do you think its acceptable that parents without any catholic beliefs should be forced to baptise their kids just to get them to attend such a school, when that school is the only option for the child to attend?
i guess not. but you could say if have no catholic beliefs than the act of baptism should be meaningless and a small price to pay to get into a nearby school. i know it's the principle of the thing and all, but does it really matter that much to your kid?
 

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see that ian - not replying to you specifically - but that sorta question. i'd say the problem might be in what they dont teach because they have religious affiliations, rather then what they do teach because of it.
ah we're not in buttfuck alabama like, what secret stuff would they teach if they had no religous affiliation?
 

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Sounds like an amazing school. Let me ask, do you think its acceptable that parents without any catholic beliefs should be forced to baptise their kids just to get them to attend such a school, when that school is the only option for the child to attend?
It's not just athiests or agnostics who are affected by this. It's a problem faced by all non-catholics in Ireland, including those from other Christian denominations.

As a Christian I think it is unacceptable to have a situation where one Church (not even a religion), one denomination, can influence legal decisions and has free reign to force membership on families and children. The school situation is just one of many ways that Irish people are forced, indirectly, into catholicism.
 

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ah we're not in buttfuck alabama like, what secret stuff would they teach if they had no religous affiliation?
well in my school we spent two hours a week for at least three years on non examined 'religious education' classes. waste of time that. it doesnt necessarily have to to be 'secret'. i cant remember how long at national school was devoted to 're' - but i can still remember a bunch of shit songs. i'm sure the time could be bettter spent. also as i mentioned in my first post on this, out 'catholic' history course varies greatly from the 'proodestant' one taught up north (i mean that schools in the same townsare learning varying interpretations of history based on thier creed). that might not seem to make any impact in the 26 counties, but i know i'd rather unfiltered history to be taught to the people i have to live around.
 

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well in my school we spent two hours a week for at least three years on non examined 'religious education' classes. waste of time that. it doesnt necessarily have to to be 'secret'. i cant remember how long at national school was devoted to 're' - but i can still remember a bunch of shit songs. i'm sure the time could be bettter spent. also as i mentioned in my first post on this, out 'catholic' history course varies greatly from the 'proodestant' one taught up north (i mean that schools in the same townsare learning varying interpretations of history based on thier creed). that might not seem to make any impact in the 26 counties, but i know i'd rather unfiltered history to be taught to the people i have to live around.
do you think the histories would be the same if there was no religon? it would still be too different versions, irish versus english.
 

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It's not just athiests or agnostics who are affected by this. It's a problem faced by all non-catholics in Ireland, including those from other Christian denominations.

As a Christian I think it is unacceptable to have a situation where one Church (not even a religion), one denomination, can influence legal decisions and has free reign to force membership on families and children. The school situation is just one of many ways that Irish people are forced, indirectly, into catholicism.
What she said. I'm not a Christian though.
 

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And sure I was thinking,you could always just photoshop a baptismal cert if push came to shove.
 

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well in my school we spent two hours a week for at least three years on non examined 'religious education' classes. waste of time that. it doesnt necessarily have to to be 'secret'. i cant remember how long at national school was devoted to 're' - but i can still remember a bunch of shit songs. i'm sure the time could be bettter spent. also as i mentioned in my first post on this, out 'catholic' history course varies greatly from the 'proodestant' one taught up north (i mean that schools in the same townsare learning varying interpretations of history based on thier creed). that might not seem to make any impact in the 26 counties, but i know i'd rather unfiltered history to be taught to the people i have to live around.

that sounds more like a curriculum thread problem.

Seriously, the things i'd change in the English curriculum if I could

are


many
 

ann post

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squiggle nailed it. i tend to nitpick on this one.

froog - it would be irish versus english, without the religious slant... thing i've been thinking about lately is 'will the ryan report/mc carthy etc be on the curriculum in a few years or not?' - i'd think it should be, its major irish history, but i sorta wonder how filtered it will end up when the school system is 90% controlled by the organization thats supposedly got its head on the block.

I is john - curriculum surely, but if there wasn't a baptismal clause in applications then the curriculum would probably have to be a bit more embracing of multiple denominations/backgrounds, rather then its current status of saying 'join us and go to second level, dont join us and we'll make it hard'.

i was all set for doing the count me out thing about a month ago, but all this real talk from parents has been even putting me (as a single adult) off it. its a really low bargaining tool, and sadly a powerful one.
 

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I been thinking about this and really, this isn't about secularism versus catholic church at all, is it? It's about secularism versus lapsed catholic. This wasn't a problem when we were growing up because secularism had little traction at the time: now it's commonplace (by secularism in this context I mean those who would prefer no religion in their children's lives, and certainly not their education). But the real problem is that, for secularism to take root properly, and for choice to be available to non-catholics, the lapsed catholics are the ones clogging the way. You can't blame an institution run by a religious organisation for making their beliefs a part of their every day, but you can blame a country for not providing another option. And so long as people continue to support this by pretending to believe, when they don't (and I'd say this makes up a huge number), well, it'll just stay that way.

Nora goes to an Educate Together school and she's always asking me about god and stuff. They were learning about adam and eve, so she asks me, if they're the parents of everyone, does that mean she has four parents?
 

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Well,I too have been thinking about this and I for one am not prepared to let Daisy get baptised end of story.She can do what she likes when she's 18,
but as long as she's living under my roof it won't be happening.I've started to save to bring her to Eurodisney when her contemporary's are making their
communions.As for the whole secondary thing.....I'm undecided as to how to deal with it,but I'm prepared to fight for my kids right to be educated in any
school that is funded by the state.
 

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ah we're not in buttfuck alabama like, what secret stuff would they teach if they had no religous affiliation?
A priest-teacher made contact with us through the website. I had a barny with him over and back but one thing he said was pretty shocking. He said he was a geography teacher and after telling his 4th and 5th year secondary classes about evolution he said that most of them didn't believe it. One has to question his influence over all of this because any science teacher could tell you that evolution is fact as much as gravity is. Not saying that this is widespread but it is one example of how catechism gets in the way of fact.

I been thinking about this and really, this isn't about secularism versus catholic church at all, is it? It's about secularism versus lapsed catholic. This wasn't a problem when we were growing up because secularism had little traction at the time: now it's commonplace (by secularism in this context I mean those who would prefer no religion in their children's lives, and certainly not their education). But the real problem is that, for secularism to take root properly, and for choice to be available to non-catholics, the lapsed catholics are the ones clogging the way. You can't blame an institution run by a religious organisation for making their beliefs a part of their every day, but you can blame a country for not providing another option. And so long as people continue to support this by pretending to believe, when they don't (and I'd say this makes up a huge number), well, it'll just stay that way.
You've hit the nail on the head here. There are tons of lapsed Catholics out there and they are pretty much happy to let things slide and not to upset the apple cart. I'd even go as far as to call them ethnic Catholics in the sense that they feel they are born as Catholic and this just doesn't change.
 

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ya went to a catholic secondary school, ........., in fact you would hardly know it was "catholic" at all, religon class in first year was just a discusison on morals and safe sex .....
Same here. But the issue now is enrolment, not necessarily the subjects taught (that for another day).
 

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I don't think religion has any place in schools - the current system is a vestige of a former time when a stoney broke fledgling State couldn't aford its own social policies and so outsourced them to the religious with terrible consequences. The current financial situation in this country is partly down to the State trying to afford its own social policies (health, education, poverty alleviation) for the first time and failing.

The curriculum is there and can be taught without reference to faith - after all we don't have catholic driving schools so no need for catholic input into chemistry, accounting, literature. Religious education should be done by churches separately á la Sunday school.

As a long-lapsed catholic I see little threat from catholic religious instruction though, given that catholics don't read the bible, live their daily lives without reference to their faith and don't even know when to stand up or kneel at mass. As far as our generation goes it has to be the least effective inculcation drive ever. I have had more success converting people to Saabs than the church has had getting people to behave as real catholics.
 

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