red sparrows (1 Viewer)

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

word, that guy is a legend. he just gets 'music'

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us - "we play really loud and need lots of delay on the vocals"

him - "play bit"

us - dddurrrrrrgggggggeeeee

him "ah, I know exactly what you mean"

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him - "could you turn down your amp"

me - "I like it loud so I can get feedback and stuff"

*shakes head in "you crazy kids manner" and gets on with job*

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2 minutes later everything sounds deadly

Piss beer and bad smell in the back of the venue aside, from a bloke in a bands point of view the Hub is a great venue... nice sound man, good PA, blah blah... it's just very hard to get a crowd into it's dank smelly fizzy rank beer serving stomach... shame really

yeah that hub guy is cool
"do you want a loan of my drill??! you could run it over the pick-up!!"

 

[hugh]

Rule no.1 - never let an engineer turn your amp down so low you can't hear it over the drums onstage.
No matter wat they say about giving it back to you in the monitors - in small venues especially - that's bollox.

Alan, isn't the reason that engineers want to do this because typically your amps are facing the vocal mikes and so if they are really loud it's going to cause feedback, whereas the monitors are facing roughly the same direction as the vocal mikes and hence you don't get the same problem? Obviously this leads to a different problem which is that many amps sound shit unless you turn them up .... but, is this bollox?

 

[hugh]

everyone gets pissed off with us

we're used to it



that was with the bronx wasn't it, so much fun...

Yeah that's it. Good night.

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

And he still asks to do this with instrumental bands.

 

[hugh]

And he still asks to do this with instrumental bands.

Well that sounds like total bollox all right.

By the way, I'm not saying he did ask us to turn the amps down, can't really remember ....

 

[Pantone247]

Alan, isn't the reason that engineers want to do this because typically your amps are facing the vocal mikes and so if they are really loud it's going to cause feedback,

I'm not doctor... but the amps and the microphones aren't connected in anyway, so wouldn't feedback...

and your sticking a mic infront of anyway to get too the house P.A. doesn't seem to click with me as a reason...

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

He asked me to turn down to the point where it would have been quiet enough to play at home,and not be heard in the next room.On my amp that'a hell of a lot closer to 0 than it is to even 1. Depending on the room etc I usually play at about 5-6 and have done so regularly in whelans with other bands. Brian said he thought I was going to hit the soundman when he kept telling me to turn down. I reckon if I encountered him a few more times I probably would. He's clueless.
That one person is possibly doing more harm than most to irish music. All he does is cause local bands to sound shit. It's not like some of the people commenting on this thread have no experience of playing live.

 

[Unclealo]

I'm not doctor... but the amps and the microphones aren't connected in anyway, so wouldn't feedback...

Not sure about that F. Even at rehearsals I've seen PA vocal mic input levels go red on the desk when people are playing instruments. An live mic will pick up what ever's going on close by..

 

[Pantone247]

Not sure about that F. Even at rehearsals I've seen PA vocal mic input levels go red on the desk when people are playing instruments. An live mic will pick up what ever's going on close by..

ah yeah it'll pick up alright, but it wouldn't feed back

what I understand is microphone and speaker have to be connected to feed back, and your geetar amp and the house PA vocal mic aren't

"'course Mrs Columbo is much better at this kinda thing then me..."

 

[Unclealo]

"'course Mrs Columbo is much better at this kinda thing then me..."

Aggggg. I've no comeback

 

[aoboa]

Alan, isn't the reason that engineers want to do this because typically your amps are facing the vocal mikes and so if they are really loud it's going to cause feedback, whereas the monitors are facing roughly the same direction as the vocal mikes and hence you don't get the same problem? Obviously this leads to a different problem which is that many amps sound shit unless you turn them up .... but, is this bollox?

No, that's not how it works.
True vocal mics cause feeback but it's feedback between the mic and the monitors/pa. Your amp has no real affect on this.
Except: If your amp is loud, the engineer will need to match the vocals i.e. turn them up - which can lead to feedback (if you're not quick and handy with the monitor/foh eqs).
Bleed into the mics from amps is a problem alright but it's a different problem - best solved by getting a singer with a head/body ratio like a lollipop.

 

[aoboa]

He asked me to turn down to the point where it would have been quiet enough to play at home,and not be heard in the next room.On my amp that'a hell of a lot closer to 0 than it is to even 1. Depending on the room etc I usually play at about 5-6 and have done so regularly in whelans with other bands. Brian said he thought I was going to hit the soundman when he kept telling me to turn down. I reckon if I encountered him a few more times I probably would. He's clueless.
That one person is possibly doing more harm than most to irish music. All he does is cause local bands to sound shit. It's not like some of the people commenting on this thread have no experience of playing live.

Just refuse if you think an engineer is being unreasonable.
Now - I'll qualify this by saying that the bands stage volume should be reasonable too i.e. pretty much the level that experienced musicians will use at rehearsals.

 

[aoboa]

BTW: The biggest problem with bleed into a vocal mic is the drum kit, not the amps.

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

what I have ended up having to do,i'm sure otheres will have done the same thing,is that because in soundcheck,the guitar is nonexistant,once the gig starts,I feel the need to keep turning up. Surely that's a bigger problem to a soundman than getting it right in the first place?
I don't play live any louder than practice,unless sometimes if it's a gig with no pa,I play a bit louder then. However,we are loud enough in practice.

 

[hugh]

No, that's not how it works.
True vocal mics cause feeback but it's feedback between the mic and the monitors/pa. Your amp has no real affect on this.
Except: If your amp is loud, the engineer will need to match the vocals i.e. turn them up - which can lead to feedback (if you're not quick and handy with the monitor/foh eqs).

Hmmmm ..... you see I think that's what tends to happen with us. Since Anto is no Damien Dempsey on the vocals (I mean that in the best possible way Anthony) they have to be turned up quite a bit and sometimes the engineer does not have the know-how or inclination or time to deal with this properly (i.e. adjust the eqs right).

But if what you are saying is correct, why is it that some engineers want you to turn the amps down? Why do they care?

Bleed into the mics from amps is a problem alright but it's a different problem - best solved by getting a singer with a head/body ratio like a lollipop.

Could you a singer to grow a giant afro? Would that work?

 

[Pantone247]

But if what you are saying is correct, why is it that some engineers want you to turn the amps down? Why do they care?

I've always thought it was so if things went really tits up and your bands general thing was really really awful they could just cut the sound at the desk or drop out the bad guitarist stuff like that

control like

 

[aoboa]

I've always thought it was so if things went really tits up and your bands general thing was really really awful they could just cut the sound at the desk or drop out the bad guitarist stuff like that

control like

Yeah it's control all right.
Remember - this mostly happens in small venues.
Basically: if your amps are low enough the engineer will have better control over the balance of the front of house sound ie. if he thinks your guitar is too quiet he can turn it up.
It makes his job easier.
Problem is, the monitors in small venues normally aren't powerful enough to take a full mix of guitars, vocals etc. This means that the onstage sound can be really poor - which is why when loads of bands come off stage convinced that they sounded terrible - people will say that the front of house sound was great

 

[oh shit]

what I have ended up having to do,i'm sure otheres will have done the same thing,is that because in soundcheck,the guitar is nonexistant,once the gig starts,I feel the need to keep turning up.

i dont understand... isn't the point of a soundcheck to all you to get all your levels where you want them for playing the gig? so if the guitar is nonexistant in soundcheck, you dont stop the soundcheck until you've got a level where it is existent?
or am i missing the point?

i never really bothered about soundchecks until the last six months, now i'm getting fussy as fuck about it, on big stages anyway.

see ya later gary!

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

Exactly,but when the soundman's attitude is "hurry up" it's a whole different thing.
I also generally want little or nothing in the monitors,a bit of bass maybe at most.
Who does sound in the limelight Bernard?

 

[oh shit]

it depends, it's usually one of a few guys brought in by the local pa company. could be paul o'shaunessey who you may know, he's great. the rest are all pretty easy going too. you should be fine for taking time with the monitors anyway.

these days i like 3 parts bass and kick to 2 parts guitar and snare, with a dash of vocal and toms in a big room, and if there are enough mics a smidgen of hi hat is great, more so for the other two guys cos then i can keep time with the left foot and still be heard.
a good monitor mix makes such a difference.