Public versus Private Sector (2 Viewers)

[pete]

Do you think yis have any chance?

who knows

 

[magicbastarder]

Shit like this really doesn't help:



http://thepost.ie/news/lowerpaid-civil-servants-to-bear-brunt-of-pay-cuts-46458.html

is that designed to turn the tide from private sector vs. public sector into public sector vs. public sector?

 

[niallmc]

who knows

it's got to be done

 

[broken arm]

instead of hacking the legs off the govt and perpetuating the 'public vs private myth, i

what is this myth you are talking about?

 

[ann post]

what is this myth you are talking about?

no not that. i'll try the short version: in early american politics, when the black people were under slavery, there was also a white underclass of recent immigrants who had pretty much an even plane with the slave class. it looked for a time that they might put their heads together and lynch the ruling classes to gain proper working terms and rights.

to counter this, the powers that were there at the time gave the white folk slightly better conditions then the black folk. this created a tension between the working class which stopped them ever getting their heads together and getting rid of the ruling classes that were screwing them up the hole.

that was referred to by some as 'turning the poor against the poor', or to the british govt. 'divide and conquer'. i think this whole notion of 'public vs. private' is the same political hand being dealt once more. thats the myth, and thats why its crazy to get into that fight.

 

[broken arm]

that was referred to by some as 'turning the poor against the poor', or to the british govt. 'divide and conquer'. i think this whole notion of 'public vs. private' is the same political hand being dealt once more. thats the myth, and thats why its crazy to get into that fight.

so, you're saying the whole public/private thing has been made up? doesn't exist? or that there is no difference between them?

 

[Froog]

3. Possible ‘blacking’ of PQs and Ministerial reps, beginning with certain Departments

 

[Froog]

2. Refusal to answer telephones or operate computers in certain areas


no change there then.

 

[ann post]

so, you're saying the whole public/private thing has been made up? doesn't exist? or that there is no difference between them?

i think it exists, because its a great venting point for people who are loosing out to focus anger or unfairness that they've experience on - that definitley exists.

i dont think it exists in terms of trying to get people back into work, i mean if i started a private business tomorrow morning, the first thing i'd have to to is go talk to revenue people. then i'd be paying tax all year round so that there can be luxuries like streetlights outside my bidness etc... basically one exists to facilitate the other in a profitable situation and this argument didn't exist in the profit years.

it definitely sends the frustration in the wrong direction. i.e its johhny public/private's fault that i lost my public/private job and/or have received or not received a pay cut/increase. thats the whole arguemnet. achieves fuck all. its a myth.

 

[broken arm]

it definitely sends the frustration in the wrong direction. i.e its johhny public/private's fault that i lost my public/private job and/or have received or not received a pay cut/increase. thats the whole arguemnet. achieves fuck all. its a myth.

i think I understand you now. you're that someone who loses their job can't blame the government?

I was thinking you were saying something more complicated

 

[ann post]

i think I understand you now. you're that someone who loses their job can't blame the government?

I was thinking you were saying something more complicated

i'm not saying that no. my latest take on this is that its like a modern if not still quite affluent version of the famine. everyone put all their faith in one thing, the construction/potato. the construction/potato failed. we didn't have a plan B. its probably just in our nature.

 

[broken arm]

i'm not saying that no. my latest take on this is that its like a modern if not still quite affluent version of the famine. everyone put all their faith in one thing, the construction/potato. the construction/potato failed. we didn't have a plan B. its probably just in our nature.

you've lost me again.

 

[ann post]

how so?

it would be way quicker if you just explained to me why you think there is a real 'public vs. private', what is it, what are its functions, what is its likely outcome and who will benefit from it.

 

[broken arm]

I was reading some stuff recently about public sector productivity in the UK


I can't find similar studies for Ireland though - i found some Forfas papers discussing public sector productivity and OCED stats but nothing comparative

The widening productivity gap between the public and private sectors has cost the British taxpayer £58.4bn a year - half of the total raised in income tax.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/aug/23/public-sector-inefficiency-costs

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/articles/nojournal/TotalPublicServiceFinalv5.pdf

 

[broken arm]

how so?

it would be way quicker if you just explained to me why you think there is a real 'public vs. private', what is it, what are its functions, what is its likely outcome and who will benefit from it.

one is controlled by the state and the other isn't.

one is largely responsible for the delivery of public goods and maintaining the functioning of the state. the other is generally responsible for profit (although there are 3rd and 4th sector enterprises)

how the two interface is complicated and depends on different models of governance.

 

[ann post]

one is controlled by the state and the other isn't.

one is largely responsible for the delivery of public goods and maintaining the functioning of the state. the other is generally responsible for profit (although there are 3rd and 4th sector enterprises)

how the two interface is complicated and depends on different models of governance.

thats just a short description of how a country works. its not telling me why there should be such a thing as public vs private etc.

those stats prove nothing, they are from the boom years. they measure private in profit. at present private is an epic fail.

 

[broken arm]

thats just a short description of how a country works. its not telling me why there should be such a thing as public vs private etc.

those stats prove nothing, they are from the boom years. they measure private in profit. at present private is an epic fail.

aahhh - i get you again. I don't think there should be public versus private in anything other than comparative terms. i.e. there is no need to scrap

but I understand why people think the both sides should be closer together in terms of security and fairness. the bitching about jobs for life is perfectly natural imo.

maybe if the public sector employment levels increased (to say, swedish levels) there would be a critical mass of acceptance of public sector employment conditions.

also - if the public sector is worried about its perception (inefficienct etc) it needs to sort that out itself.

 

[ann post]

well i'd mentioned the jobs for life thing in me first post....


anyways. are the phones off yet??? i dont want to spend half today trying to get through to longford if they are on silent.

 

[Livewire]

I think the answer is all these public services should be ran by private companies but be heavily regulated by a government body with the power to enforce it's decisions.

Public health care leaves people on trolleys, but it's more or less free. Privately ran hospitals charge outrageously mad prices but does a good job.

I think a combination of the two is what we need, but not in the way Mary Harney is trying to make a two tiered system.

 

[broken arm]

I think the answer is all these public services should be ran by private companies but be heavily regulated by a government body with the power to enforce it's decisions.

Public health care leaves people on trolleys, but it's more or less free. Privately ran hospitals charge outrageously mad prices but does a good job.

I think a combination of the two is what we need, but not in the way Mary Harney is trying to make a two tiered system.

yes and no - there is a tricky balance.

I'm sick of too many public services being contracted out to private sector companies (without more strict governance) - there needs to be a public model based on private systems (with transparency, creativity, innnovation, design thinking etc etc)

Have you heard of the company Serco?