Public versus Private Sector (1 Viewer)

[Lili Marlene]

Do bonuses exist in the Public Sector?

Funnily enough, if I don't get my bonus it's effectively a 10% cut in my wages. I'd happily get no bonus and have that 10% guaranteed.

alternatively introduce bonuses to the public sector which would

a) mean a 10% loss isn't permanent
and
b) possibly reduce the 'they do nothing anyway' image of the civil service



anyhoo, i'm gonna take Ann Post's advice and read something

 

[egg_]

WHY WE CANNOT TAX OUR WAY OUT OF THIS

We cannot cut our way of of this either. Everyone knows that, right? Right guys?

 

[egg_]

wouldn't have satisfied the people we're borrowing money off to pay for everything.

How did every fucker become an authority on what lenders want us to do? All Irish bond issues this year have been, as far as I know, oversubscribed. And guess what happened to the interest rates we have to pay after the budget? They went up.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

wow you really didn't read the first 23 pages, did you?

Rumbled!

 

[Froog]

How did every fucker become an authority on what lenders want us to do? All Irish bond issues this year have been, as far as I know, oversubscribed. And guess what happened to the interest rates we have to pay after the budget? They went up.

my word is my bond.

 

[Stereobaby]

Funnily enough, if I don't get my bonus it's effectively a 10% cut in my wages. I'd happily get no bonus and have that 10% guaranteed.

alternatively introduce bonuses to the public sector which would

a) mean a 10% loss isn't permanent
and
b) possibly reduce the 'they do nothing anyway' image of the civil service



anyhoo, i'm gonna take Ann Post's advice and read something

But surely, that 10% bonus is what it says it is, a bonus i.e. not your basic salary. Happily getting that 10% guaranteed and no bonus is just a pay rise isnt it? Are bonuses expected?

 

[Lili Marlene]

But surely, that 10% bonus is what it says it is, a bonus i.e. not your basic salary. Happily getting that 10% guaranteed and no bonus is just a pay rise isnt it? Are bonuses expected?

didn't get one last time.

I'd imagine if there were no bonuses the wages would be a bit higher, probably not 10% though. When the aim of the game is to make money it would be pretty naive of me to think that my company really wouldn't find every way possible to save costs.

 

[I Bleed Black]

laaaads can i just make a polite request that people at least try to read up a little about what's actually happened before having a go?

this isn't boards.ie you know.

edit: as posted a few pages back, here's peter mcloones description of what was on the table at the negotiations http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1208/1224260297379.html

A lot of what is in that article seems too good to be true. Maybe it is true or maybe it is very easy for the unions to claim all this was on the table now that it has been rejected. If it's the former than you really have to wonder what kind of crack the government are smoking.

 

[magicbastarder]

am i right in thinking that the unions couldn't promise what they were offering, that they'd have to convince the members to vote for it?

because most public sector workers i talked to had little time for the unions' position. a few were openly hostile about how the leadership was making the entire public sector look idiotic.

 

[MDR]

Believe it or not there is nothing in writing anywhere that says a public servant can't be sacked.

 

[MDR]

am i right in thinking that the unions couldn't promise what they were offering, that they'd have to convince the members to vote for it?

because most public sector workers i talked to had little time for the unions' position. a few were openly hostile about how the leadership was making the entire public sector look idiotic.

It's always the case that the unions agree something provisionally and then have to get their members' approval for it. Most of my civil service colleagues would probably agree with the summary in your second paragraph.

 

[MDR]

PS: in order to avoid a shoal of red herrings it's worth remembering that the Govt never said it wanted to equalise public and private sector pay - they just want to save money.

 

[hugh]

PS: in order to avoid a shoal of red herrings it's worth remembering that the Govt never said it wanted to equalise public and private sector pay - they just want to save money.

True. But, they are obviously saying one thing while there is another agenda going on as well - bringing down wages across the entire economy to try and restore competitiveness. I'm making no judgments about whether this is a good idea or not by the way. But, it seems to me that it's a key reason why they rejected the union's plan.

Having said that - I'm still not convinced that the union's plan was viable. And I'm not going to just assume it was just because McLoone says it was.

So, in short - there was an easy thing to do (cut wages) and a difficult thing to do (reach an agreement on cost reduction with the unions). They chose the easy thing, probably bearing in mind that it had the added benefit of the whole bring-down-wages to restore competitiveness idea. I'd say it was pretty much a no-brainer from their point of view. Which doesn't make it necessarily right, but does make it unsurprising.

 

[ann post]

its interesting, people are happy to criticise the govt's dealing with the present cuts, but in the private sector all through the insane boom of the past 15 years, were people going up to thier bosses and thier bosses bosses and saying 'eh, i know were making shed loads of money, and i appreciate the raise, however, i feel some day this bubble might burst, so i thought maybe we should put some money aside to keep us stable in the future'?? instead of hacking the legs off the govt and perpetuating the 'public vs private myth, its probably more logical to dig up the back yard and see exactly whats under the patio. also, where theres a patio, there's always room for a triffid and a decaying scouser.

 

[pete]

Shit like this really doesn't help:

The basic salaries of some of the country’s most senior civil servants have been only marginally reduced by the pay cuts announced in the budget. This is because the cuts have been calculated on figures that include a bonus scheme that ended earlier this year, rather than on basic salary. As a result, many lower-ranking civil servants will face a larger cash cut in their basic pay than their more highly-paid colleagues.

[...]

For example, as of March 2008,the assistant secretary salary range ended at €147,000. As of January 1, 2010, the range ends at just over €146,000 - a decline of less than €1,000 a year, or less than 1 per cent.

However, the salary of a low-ranking clerical officer has actually declined by more in cash terms - from€36,667 a year last year to €35,515 in 2010.

http://thepost.ie/news/lowerpaid-civil-servants-to-bear-brunt-of-pay-cuts-46458.html

 

[pete]

Action to be taken in the Civil Service


Initial Actions

1. ‘Work to Rule’ by all Civil Servants - to be defined in consultation with local Branch Representatives

2. Refusal to answer telephones or operate computers in certain areas

3. Possible ‘blacking’ of PQs and Ministerial reps, beginning with certain Departments

4. Strict operation of attendances which could include -

closure of offices outside of 9.15 a.m. 1.00 p.m. and 2.30 p.m. to 5.30 p.m.

non attendance by non overtime grades after 5.30 p.m

cessation of certain activities at 5.30 p.m.


5. Non co-operation with ‘Transformation’ programme by all Civil Servants

6. Rolling stoppages by some Unions in some areas

7. Withdrawal by some Unions from Partnership Committees

8. Refusal to give priority to queries by elected representatives in certain areas

9. Selective strike action in the event of disciplinary action being taken against Union members for undertaking any of the above actions

It is envisaged that most of these actions will commence in January.

Further Actions

In the event that the actions listed do not have the desired effect, a number of functions have been identified for targeted strike action. These functions have been identified in order to maximise disruption. It is envisaged that these actions will commence from mid-February onwards.


Other Comment

It is not intended that this list should be regarded as exhaustive. Other actions may be added.

"it" appears to be "on"

 

[It Will Never Last]

In the event that the actions listed do not have the desired effect

What be that Pete?

 

[ann post]

oh balls.

 

[pete]

What be that Pete?

that be this

The ICTU Public Services Committee is committed to a strong and sustained response to the second public service pay cut in less than a year, threats of possible compulsory redundancies and the proposed devaluation of public service pensions that was announced in the 9 December Budget. The unions’ objectives are to reverse the pay cuts, to protect pensions, and to prevent compulsory redundancies.

 

[It Will Never Last]

that be this

Do you think yis have any chance?