Leaving the Catholic Church - countmeout.ie (5 Viewers)

[Unicron]

Except they say they're catholics on the census, they don't say they're mormans.

I mean insofar as they're baptised in the church but not practicing.

 

[MilanPan!c]

The truth is that the opposite of love is indifference. Even caring enough to reject them is caring too much.

As for the constitution:

The discussion needs to not be about the majority subjugating the minority but about equality. A country based on one religious belief in intrinsically unfair to some minority group.

Fair is seperating church and state and making everyone equal in that sense.

I could give a toss if everyone in the country, but me was Catholic; I'd still expect the LAW to view me with no regard to my religion.

On the OTHER hand, I'd be all for giving huge benefits to people that never sinned. Say, you prove you're a good Christian and your income tax drops by 20%. For every commandment you break your tax increases by 10%.

It'd certainly solve a lot of budget problems...

 

[MilanPan!c]

Except they say they're catholics on the census, they don't say they're mormans.

There's probably more mermen in Ireland than Mormons.

 

[Unicron]

There's probably more mermen in Ireland than Mormons.

We're probably all mormans in their eyes, seeing as it's highly likely that we've all been baptised in absentia.

 

[MilanPan!c]

We're probably all mormans in their eyes, seeing as it's highly likely that we've all been baptised in absentia.

That would certainly explain why I keep waking up with wet sheets!

 

[therealjohnny]

Mormons, Mormons, I'm surrounded by Mormons

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[shower another shower]

ye gotta die before you qualify for Baptism for the Dead.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

....Catholic Church of Ireland...

A contradiction in terms surely.

As for Irish people being theologically Protestant im not so sure, I think we retained a certain pagan sensibility evidenced by the continued use of holy wells etc up till recent times even in spite of Church attempts to suppress such practises. Protestantism seems too joy-less for the Irish disposition. Or am I just equating all Protestantism with the Lutheran/Ian Paisley branches of the religion? Maybe we're just too lazy to do religion properly?

 

[MilanPan!c]

ye gotta die before you qualify for Baptism for the Dead.

I've been dead inside for yonks.

 

[MilanPan!c]

A contradiction in terms surely.

As for Irish people being theologically Protestant im not so sure, I think we retained a certain pagan sensibility evidenced by the continued use of holy wells etc up till recent times even in spite of Church attempts to suppress such practises. Protestantism seems too joy-less for the Irish disposition. Or am I just equating all Protestantism with the Lutheran/Ian Paisley branches of the religion? Maybe we're just too lazy to do religion properly?

Sure, it's not as fun as pedophilia and infanticide, but there's laughs to be had all the same.

 

[Unicron]

A contradiction in terms surely.

As for Irish people being theologically Protestant im not so sure, I think we retained a certain pagan sensibility evidenced by the continued use of holy wells etc up till recent times even in spite of Church attempts to suppress such practises. Protestantism seems too joy-less for the Irish disposition. Or am I just equating all Protestantism with the Lutheran/Ian Paisley branches of the religion? Maybe we're just too lazy to do religion properly?

In terms of doctrine you can't really be a Catholic and reject the legitimacy of transubstantiation, how many people who go to mass really buy that they're consuming actual flesh and blood? If they think it's representative of it then they're subscribing to consubstantiation, ergo they're prods. Some protestant churches, notably the Anglican communion which includes the Church of Ireland consider themselves to be part of a larger single catholic Church, just not part of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[oh shit]

The truth is that the opposite of love is indifference. Even caring enough to reject them is caring too much.

As for the constitution:

The discussion needs to not be about the majority subjugating the minority but about equality. A country based on one religious belief in intrinsically unfair to some minority group.

Fair is seperating church and state and making everyone equal in that sense.

I could give a toss if everyone in the country, but me was Catholic; I'd still expect the LAW to view me with no regard to my religion.

On the OTHER hand, I'd be all for giving huge benefits to people that never sinned. Say, you prove you're a good Christian and your income tax drops by 20%. For every commandment you break your tax increases by 10%.

It'd certainly solve a lot of budget problems...

This is a typically naive liberal view of constitutionalism. the LAW is just a set of legally valid norms. Where those norms are derived from is politically contested. That's why constitutions give political legitimacy to the legislature. what goes INTO the LAW in terms of its substance cannot be determined by the abstract notion of 'equality', which only has meaning when it is used as a measurement of something substantive. If everyone but you in the country was Catholic, then the norms that go into the LAW are going to be CATHOLIC NORMS. And "equality" only means that everyone has to obey them. This is why, for instance, Irish women (equally) have no right to abortion. So formally leaving the church is obviously a political thing, even if symbolic, but 90% of politics is symbolism anyway.

 

[rettucs]

If everyone but you in the country was Catholic, then the norms that go into the LAW are going to be CATHOLIC NORMS. And "equality" only means that everyone has to obey them. This is why, for instance, Irish women (equally) have no right to abortion. So formally leaving the church is obviously a political thing, even if symbolic, but 90% of politics is symbolism anyway.

this makes a lot of sense and its certainly not unique to Ireland. Any country that has a large proportion of any group of people who define themselves (or are defined by others) by their religion, ethnicity, etc, will hold sway because their mere presence in that country means that have a political lobby. A political lobby translates into law.

Its the reason why America supports Israel, right?

 

[nlgbbbblth]

A contradiction in terms surely.

As for Irish people being theologically Protestant im not so sure, I think we retained a certain pagan sensibility evidenced by the continued use of holy wells etc up till recent times even in spite of Church attempts to suppress such practises. Protestantism seems too joy-less for the Irish disposition. Or am I just equating all Protestantism with the Lutheran/Ian Paisley branches of the religion? Maybe we're just too lazy to do religion properly?

In my experience there is plenty joylessness particularly in the Methodist and Presbyterian strands. Church of Ireland = mixed.

Taken as a whole the prods are more conservative.

I put myself down as Roman Catholic in the 2011 census on the basis that
1) I was baptised
2) Made my communion and confirmation
3) Was an altar boy for two months
3) Couldn't be bothered with the whole leaving process

 

[Lili Marlene]

In my experience there is plenty joylessness particularly in the Methodist and Presbyterian strands. Church of Ireland = mixed.

Taken as a whole the prods are more conservative.

I put myself down as Roman Catholic in the 2011 census on the basis that
1) I was baptised
2) Made my communion and confirmation
3) Was an altar boy for two months
3) Couldn't be bothered with the whole leaving process

So you consider yourself a Roman Catholic then? With all that that entails?

(i'm not asking if you agree with what other roman catholics have done btw)

 

[nlgbbbblth]

So you consider yourself a Roman Catholic then? With all that that entails?

(i'm not asking if you agree with what other roman catholics have done btw)

Lapsed would be a better way of putting it as I don't practice or don't follow the church's guidelines on various issues. Was there a lapsed box on the census form? I didn't see it.

Having said I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with people who do practice [i.e. my parents, my aunts, uncles, cousins etc].

 

[Kermit McDermott]

If people get something out of religion, that's great.

 

[Lili Marlene]

There should be a box for lapsed really, or "vaguely catholic but not so sure about transubstantiation and indulgences"

 

[nlgbbbblth]

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[rettucs]

a lot of catholics 'practice' for the same reason they clean their plate at dinnertime. Because it was ingrained into them during their upbringing and it just becomes part of whats normal for them.

And as regards catholics subscribing to all that catholicism entails, I'd say most don't have a clue about the church's views on lots of things.