ISPs providing addresses of p2p users to the IRMA? (2 Viewers)

[1000smurfs]

There's very little that's hard to find for sale online anymore. Most bands, unless really really obscure (in which case they're giving their music away free anyway probably), have sites where they sell their music in download or cd/vinyl.

True but at a fixed price, often drm'd and still through
a major label. If you want to coax the downloaders into paying you have to relax those three restrictions.

I appreciate the sentiment but donating as a model just won't work.

As a model for providing for a full time career for a musician maybe not, at least not yet . But give it five years and i bet you'll see a lot more bands using it as a means of support.

 

[Anthony]

I have been thanked inside 3 marillion albums so far and I have been on the cover of 1.

 

[Meshuggah]

do you have the figures to back such a definitive and final statement?

No, but common sense suggests to me if a majority of fans won't buy my cd they sure as fuck won't just give me money for nothing either unless they have to. It can work for certain bands I'm sure, but as a scalable model, not a bloody chance. Marillion et al have extant significant fan bases of generally older fans who still would buy their records anyway. Starting from scratch and hoping a model like that would work would be probably more naive than signing to a major. We're nearly all freetards now, not used to paying so for the most part won't.

 

[The septic]

There's very little that's hard to find for sale online anymore. Most bands, unless really really obscure (in which case they're giving their music away free anyway probably), have sites where they sell their music in download or cd/vinyl. I appreciate the sentiment but donating as a model just won't work.

I find plenty of stuff that I can't buy online. I find plenty of stuff I can't download for free or for money online. I find plenty of sites that want $20 for shipping online. I had a half dozen albums on order in Road for 6 months, none of which ever came in. I'd pay for all of it, for a reasonable price, on vinyl, coloured would be even better.

CD's are the 8-tracks of our generation. Just sayin.

 

[Froog]

why are you so against paying for music in any way whatsoever?

Just get annoyed with people taking the moral highground regarding downloading music. can you really blame people for not paying for music when its soooooo easy to get for free and when it costs a lot to buy a cd, where nearly all the profits go to asshole record companies? why aren't people more angry with record companies for the way they handle artists and shamelessly target "evil downloaders"?

 

[Lili Marlene]

Just get annoyed with people taking the moral highground regarding downloading music. can you really blame people for not paying for music when its soooooo easy to get for free and when it costs a lot to buy a cd, where nearly all the profits go to asshole record companies? why aren't people more angry with record companies for the way they handle artists and shamelessly target "evil downloaders"?

but in the case of paying money into the customers paypal account or whatever they have on their website, exactly zero goes to their record company but you're still against it?

 

[GO]

I'm gonna get a paypal button in my signature.

 

[dudley]

and then there's karmafan.com

 

[killy kill]

I have been thanked inside 3 marillion albums so far and I have been on the cover of 1.

this cracked me up in a take-it-out-any-context-whatsoever stylee

 

[Anthony]

Great idea Gazza.

 

[Froog]

but in the case of paying money into the customers paypal account or whatever they have on their website, exactly zero goes to their record company but you're still against it?

with the paypal thing, i'd happily pay direct to an artist for a cd or mp3, with none going to record companies, but to just "donate" to a band cause they can't make a living sounds like charity, like i was saying.

 

[Meshuggah]

I find plenty of stuff that I can't buy online. I find plenty of stuff I can't download for free or for money online. I find plenty of sites that want $20 for shipping online. I had a half dozen albums on order in Road for 6 months, none of which ever came in. I'd pay for all of it, for a reasonable price, on vinyl, coloured would be even better.

CD's are the 8-tracks of our generation. Just sayin.

You're rare in that you have such obscure tastes and that you would pay to have them satisfied. The average person on here probably buys way more music than the average net connected person. I find it hard to believe that there is much you can't find to download for free. Name one of the albums and I'll try to find it to download.

 

[muffin]

You're rare in that you have such obscure tastes and that you would pay to have them satisfied. The average person on here probably buys way more music than the average net connected person. I find it hard to believe that there is much you can't find to download for free. Name one of the albums and I'll try to find it to download.

I don't think he's "rare" in having obscure taste, nor do I think you should be chastising him for not wanting to download..

Your attitude seems to be that because you don't want to pay for music, nobody should..and that's complete bollocks..

 

[Meshuggah]

I don't think he's "rare" in having obscure taste, nor do I think you should be chastising him for not wanting to download..

Your attitude seems to be that because you don't want to pay for music, nobody should..and that's complete bollocks..

Well if most people had obscure tastes, the tastes would hardly be obscure now would they? Your interpretation of my attitude is what is bollocks. We were specifically talking about using donating to compensate artists. I said donating won't work because if you want to download their music for free, you will and most people won't be arsed donating to you after the fact. I'm not advocating illegal downloading but I'm saying that a significant percentage of people do it AND won't ever donate a red fucking shilling to an artist.

The specific point of The Septic's I was addressing was related to being unable to find music to download legally or illegally. I don't think there is much you won't find if you look hard enough.

 

[Lili Marlene]

But you seem to be basing this on 'common sense'.


OK. Common sense tells me that people who like music will donate to artists they like. The donation system will work, it's common sense.

 

[platters]

Quote from another forum that pretty much sums up my opinion;

"There is really only one course of action left, and that is for the major labels to die, and finally create the necessary vacuum in the market segment that, over time, will hopefully lead to a business model that actually resides within the fucking present and not the days of Caruso. It could've been different, but the appropriate people were too busy shooting themselves in the feet in their idiot stretch limos."

As for the Talk Talk argument that some else suggested, I agree that its sad to see these kinds of studio albums being discontinued, but that's what happens. As time flows on, old process sink to the bottom and new ones are stirred up. This is the way it has always been.

I spend way too much money on music btw, but I have to acknowledge that I'm a dinosaur in this respect.

 

[Meshuggah]

But you seem to be basing this on 'common sense'.


OK. Common sense tells me that people who like music will donate to artists they like. The donation system will work, it's common sense.

It's not just common sense, it's peoples' behaviour online. Most people don't pay for services online.

Most online newspapers such as the Irish Times that were subscription-based are advertising-based now because no one would pay the subs.

iTunes is successful but pales compared to illegal downloads.
On average only 20 tunes on an iPod are from iTune.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5350258.stm

There is a select group of people who will pay online for intangibles but compared to the once huge record buying public it is insignificant.

 

[ann post]

its stealing.

for example, heres really rough math that might roughly explain the price of shit.
make a rough estimate of how many songs you have at hand, then multiply that by 5 to account for four band members and a recording engineer. then think about how much you've spent on music since you were born. then split that up per band member.

in my case, i've got maybe 15,000 songs over cd/vynil/tape/mp3

thats about

75,000 days work for band members and recording people. (thats really conservative, theres no way that anything off dark side of the moon was done in a day)

payment for 75,000 days work @ minimum wage:

now lets break that into 7 hour days

(although 7 hours in the studio is again very conservative)

75,000 x 7 x 8.65 = about 4.5 million euro.

without burning it to cd, vynil tape or 8 track it cost very conservatively 4.5 million to pay for my collection. that is paying the 5 folk in the studio 60 euro each for a days work. i've at best payed 3000 of that (which did include paying the record companies to be companies and the stores to be stores). kids now dont pay any of it. and remember, this is a one off payment, no royalties included. its really not reasonable to say that neil young should only recieve about 60 euro in his whole life to record rocking in the free world, or meatloaf to make bat out of hell, or the beegees stayin alive. its theft. i dont think every musician deserves a fortune, but minimum wage is pretty much unattainable at present.

so very conservatively estimating, i've paid each of the 75,000 people it took to make my collection about 4 cent each. they'd be lucky if they saw one of those cents.

 

[ann post]

jesus i forgot that about 60 of those are classical music. 100 piece bands. fuck.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

jesus i forgot that about 60 of those are classical music. 100 piece bands. fuck.

You'd wonder how Beethoven ever wrote a note seeing as he couldn't flog CDs