Ireland versus Archduke Franz Ferdinand (4 Viewers)

[Hector Grey]

We have to accept, and be happy with, our place in the greater scheme. and we need a manager who understands this. Gritty away performances, the odd big scalp. Taking skin off the shins of the worlds best players. Passing the ball to one another occasionally. Cheering Robbie's 139th international goal in 2019. Manager beiing able to express himself in plain, yet grammatically incorrect (the lads done well) Englaish. Spending his wedding anniversary watching Barnsley because there's a young lad there who could wear the green. Calling up Stephen Ireland and saying " do you want a fucking game or not, you nutter." Promoting Connor Sammon to kit manager. It's a big job, Connor.

We've never been a great footballing nation. No problem with that. People often (wrongly) say that Roy K was our greatest footballer. The had teh technique of a sperm whale. That's fine. He had the qualities we used to be famed for. Passion, harness, an incomparable ability to drink all night, some petty convictions and a fuck you attitude. No more timid cunts. No more losing cos we were scared. By all means, lose, but give it a fucking go.

 

[washingcattle]

I respectfully disagree. And anyway, I'm just trying to debate a few things and make some observations.

I love all these people who come on football forums in these situations and layout their failsafe blueprint for success.

And I love when thumped users distil long posts into one sentence and then pick that one sentence apart

Case in point :

Anyway, there's plenty of nonsense on this thread. Home Farm Chievo.....didn't two Irish youngsters go off to Italy a few years back? I think they're both in the LOI now. Padraig Amond went off to Portugal or somewhere. He plays for Accrington. What does that prove? I don't know. I'm just musing. You lot seem to have concrete solutions. I don't think there is such a thing. Get kids out playing football again. Coach them well, to play the game the right way. Mentor them. And wish them luck in their physical and mental development. It appears they need that most of all.

Yes 2 Irish youngsters went off to Italy and one to portugal and all 3 of them are professional footballers now is that really your point ?

Wow you've really disproved my theory with that one.

Does Ireland have a lack of good coaches? And if so, why is it not being railed against. What does Ruud Dokter get paid to do?

All those countries you've listed above, btw, have had (in relative terms) bad or ugly national sides at times.

Lack of coaches and facilities yes. I'm sure there's an article out there with details.

I didn't even read it, to be honest.

If you bother reading it.

 

[oh shit]

It's great having debates about all this, and it's helped immensely as I pass the last week or two in work. Sorry if that was a disrespectful comment there, but you had just admitted posting a link to an article that you'd not bothered to read, before deriding the general chat as nonsense. So it's all relative.

 

[washingcattle]

It's great having debates about all this, and it's helped immensely as I pass the last week or two in work. Sorry if that was a disrespectful comment there, but you had just admitted posting a link to an article that you'd not bothered to read, before deriding the general chat as nonsense. So it's all relative.

Yeah, we love you @pete; !!

 

[CinnamonBoy]

It's great having debates about all this, and it's helped immensely as I pass the last week or two in work. Sorry if that was a disrespectful comment there, but you had just admitted posting a link to an article that you'd not bothered to read, before deriding the general chat as nonsense. So it's all relative.

The content of the article wasn't important, I just used it to point out that other people than me believe that sometimes a nation is just blessed with a clutch of quality footballers, through no initiative of any football association or whatever.

And I wasn't deriding the entire thing as nonsense. I like these debates. I just think some of it is nonsense and borders on fantasy.

Like:
"For me we need to is to encourage lads to go further afield to learn their trade. I'm not sure how that's done but what we need is to get stronger ties with feeder teams in the major european leagues."

The average young lad playing football is thick as pigshit and they get homesick in fucking Manchester. Imagine them in Mannheim.

WC then says we don't have enough coaches. So wouldn't it be easier to just train more coaches or import them than it would be to start sending spotty young lads from Crumlin over to Bordeaux? And wouldn't that negate the need to be sending kids away in the first place?

 

[Jerry Twig]

Of course I was there and 72,000 turned out to go to Croke park rather than give a flying fuck about football. .

More holier-than-thou nonsense.

 

[oh shit]

The average young lad playing football is thick as pigshit and they get homesick in fucking Manchester. Imagine them in Mannheim.

WC then says we don't have enough coaches. So wouldn't it be easier to just train more coaches or import them than it would be to start sending spotty young lads from Crumlin over to Bordeaux? And wouldn't that negate the need to be sending kids away in the first place?

That seems to conflate two different things. We don't have enough coaches - that's one problem. A second, different problem is that there's a problem with what happens to good players in their late teens. So when WC says we need more coaches and also says that lads should go and play in foreign leagues, he's offering two pragmatic solutions, not contradiction.

As for who believes what... well yeah, so what. Just cos two people are wrong, doesn't mean they are less wrong.

 

[Hector Grey]

This argument is going back and forth like Andrews passing to Whelan in the great Trap side of 2012. This could go all the way to the European Championship Pub Talk games. Best fans in the world.

 

[washingcattle]

The content of the article wasn't important, I just used it to point out that other people than me believe that sometimes a nation is just blessed with a clutch of quality footballers, through no initiative of any football association or whatever.

And I wasn't deriding the entire thing as nonsense. I like these debates. I just think some of it is nonsense and borders on fantasy.

Like:
"For me we need to is to encourage lads to go further afield to learn their trade. I'm not sure how that's done but what we need is to get stronger ties with feeder teams in the major european leagues."

The average young lad playing football is thick as pigshit and they get homesick in fucking Manchester. Imagine them in Mannheim.

WC then says we don't have enough coaches. So wouldn't it be easier to just train more coaches or import them than it would be to start sending spotty young lads from Crumlin over to Bordeaux? And wouldn't that negate the need to be sending kids away in the first place?

So there's a difference between a young lad in Manchester and a young lad in Buenos Aires now ? And when did a three hour flight on Ryanair become the equivilent to moving from South America to Spain.

This what young men do all the time and it's time we actually admitted it.

Nothing can keep players from leaving Ireland it's just too small a country simple as that The point is to make them better able to actually eek out a career.

Anyway, that's my lot with this shit.

Told you you'd be back.

 

[CinnamonBoy]

The point is to make them better able to actually eek out a career.

.

For a country our size we've a phenomenal amount of players eeking out careers in soccer. I thought the aim of this discussion was to see how we can produce outstanding players, though.

I think I like the more good coaches option best.

 

[washingcattle]

For a country our size we've a phenomenal amount of players eeking out careers in soccer. I thought the aim of this discussion was to see how we can produce outstanding players, though.

I think I like the more good coaches option best.

We have and we'll continue to but as long as we're sending them off to the lower divisions in England that's as far as their career can go. Very few PL sides sign from the lower divisions anymore. Phil Jagielka Jermain Beckford and Wilfred Zaha* are the only 3 I can think of off hand that were signed by top 10 sides having never played a PL game in their careers. The old model was go to England start at the lower league and work your way up. That model is gone. It's gone for English players and it's sure as fuck gone for us too.

Coaching yes that's step one but looking beyond what England can offer has to something worth discussing.

*Senior player I mean, not youth team players or kids like Gareth Bale was at Southampton.

 

[Jerry Twig]

Told you you'd be back.

I know, you're like a fly in my ear. A fly who knows nothing about football.

 

[washingcattle]

I know, you're like a fly in my ear. A fly who knows nothing about football.

That's a telling contribution.

Vintage Benny Cake.

 

[CinnamonBoy]

We have and we'll continue to but as long as we're sending them off to the lower divisions in England that's as far as their career can go. Very few PL sides sign from the lower divisions anymore. Phil Jagielka Jermain Beckford and Wilfred Zaha* are the only 3 I can think of off hand that were signed by top 10 sides having never played a PL game in their careers. The old model was go to England start at the lower league and work your way up. That model is gone. It's gone for English players and it's sure as fuck gone for us too.

Coaching yes that's step one but looking beyond what England can offer has to something worth discussing.

*Senior player I mean, not youth team players or kids like Gareth Bale was at Southampton.

Andy Reid to Spurs another, perhaps?

As for your first point....we send a lot of kids to EPL clubs. Always have done. And to the top ones at that. Why did Conor Henderson not make it? Conor Clifford. Why is Darren Potter playing for MK Dons after appearing in the Champions League a few times for Liverpool. Why did Donal McDermott go from Man City to being unwanted at Bournemouth. Sean McGinty released by Man United as Fergie's last act. That's what I wanna know. They would have had the best of coaching since young lads and all progressed right up to the reserves or first team.

 

[Jerry Twig]

It's not much use saying young Irish players should go to Spain etc. - you don't just decide you're going here or there, you're scouted. English scouts still scout in Ireland, albeit less then they did, at least from the big clubs since the Premiership has opened up. What would be the incentive for say Spanish clubs to come here, to a tiny English-speaking country where football is the third/fourth sport (and we've had, what, four Irish players play there in the last 25 years?), when they have the pedigree Spanish youth system and the whole of Latin America to draw from?

 

[Jerry Twig]

Why did Conor Henderson not make it?.

Damn, I didn't know he'd been let go.

 

[CinnamonBoy]

It's not much use saying young Irish players should go to Spain etc. - you don't just decide you're going here or there, you're scouted. English scouts still scout in Ireland, albeit less then they did, at least from the big clubs since the Premiership has opened up. What would be the incentive for say Spanish clubs to come here, to a tiny English-speaking country where football is the third/fourth sport (and we've had, what, four Irish players play there in the last 25 years?), when they have the pedigree Spanish youth system and the whole of Latin America to draw from?

It's alright. Washing Cattle is going to twin Home Farm with Chievo and we'll have a generation of young lads who never make it but will go back to Whitehall with hot Italian wives and the ability to make a killer carbonara.

 

[Luther Blissett]

Damn, I didn't know he'd been let go.

It looks like Henderson is going to join Hull, so fingers crossed he can get his career back on track.

That goal her scored against Italy last year was cracking.

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[washingcattle]

Andy Reid to Spurs another, perhaps?

As for your first point....we send a lot of kids to EPL clubs. Always have done. And to the top ones at that. Why did Conor Henderson not make it? Conor Clifford. Why is Darren Potter playing for MK Dons after appearing in the Champions League a few times for Liverpool. Why did Donal McDermott go from Man City to being unwanted at Bournemouth. Sean McGinty released by Man United as Fergie's last act. That's what I wanna know. They would have had the best of coaching since young lads and all progressed right up to the reserves or first team.

99% don't make it that can't be changed.

It's not much use saying young Irish players should go to Spain etc. - you don't just decide you're going here or there, you're scouted. English scouts still scout in Ireland, albeit less then they did, at least from the big clubs since the Premiership has opened up. What would be the incentive for say Spanish clubs to come here, to a tiny English-speaking country where football is the third/fourth sport (and we've had, what, four Irish players play there in the last 25 years?), when they have the pedigree Spanish youth system and the whole of Latin America to draw from?

That's why part one of my two step plan was improve our coaching and step two was build relationships with clubs in Europe. Hence the Home Farm Everton example.

By the way do either of you have any bright ideas beyong hiring Martin O Neill ?

 

[Jerry Twig]

But there's a good incentive for Everton (English speaking, across the water, Everton are shite) that isn't there for Spanish clubs because of the sheer volume of quality they have at home and through ties they already have in Latin America, as I mentioned.

In terms of a coach, I'm fairly ignorant of that outside the obvious, but I wouldn't mind if the FAI took their time and threw the net out to look for coaches who've worked in smaller leagues and taken teams like ours a long way on meagre resources. I heard Marcelo Bielsa mentioned on one form, which would be interesting. At least to look beyond the usual suspects.
At the same time, I do kind of like the idea of O'Neill for the reasons Hector mentioned above. I think he's the right kind of motivator for international football, and I actually don't think he's tactically stoneage, which seems to be one fear. I don't fancy Keane one bit though.