In defence of hipsters (1 Viewer)

[Hector Grey]

And, let me clarify, the "perceived intolerance" was that Anthony was referring to "poor people" when he used the term scumbags. Not that there isn't intolerance, sure there is, but I doubt Anthony was thinking "poor people are scum" and to even infer that is kinda thick, innit?

Also, my original point is the equation of poor with working class, which I would dispute.

 

[Hector Grey]

it's hilarious to watch people who are adamant that scumbags isn't a loaded term shitting their pants with fury over being called poshos

Of course it's loaded. It suggests that the person you're referring too has no regard for other people, or society at large. Human avariciousness transcends class. Or have I missed something?

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

And, let me clarify, the "perceived intolerance" was that Anthony was referring to "poor people" when he used the term scumbags. Not that there isn't intolerance, sure there is, but I doubt Anthony was thinking "poor people are scum" and to even infer that is kinda thick, innit?

I'd love to know what he actually meant, which is why I asked.

It came across like he meant people that dress a certain way are scumbags.
Difficult to read it any other way really.

 

[Cornu Ammonis]

it's hilarious to watch people who are adamant that scumbags isn't a loaded term shitting their pants with fury over being called poshos

It's the perceived notion that D4 equals affluent equals oppressing the working class that I'm objecting to. The descriptions of D4 and more generally the "leafy suburbs" in this thread fit no more with reality than picking a less salubrious post code and saying they're all scumbags. It's not about perceived slights, it's about lazy cultural shorthand which don't hold up to scrutiny.

Just because being called a scumbag is worse than being called a posho, it doesn't make the shorthand approach to stereotyping any less valid. If you only take broad strokes in either direction, you're just living in a fantasy world. Group think just reinforces this us versus them mentality, the world's problems always being someone else's fault as opposed to a web of complex social, financial, political and educational situations.

Or go with poshos took all the money and scumbags are looking to rob it (check your address to see which one you are).

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

No one ever means something nice by saying "scumbag" or "D4 head".

Should Ross O’Carroll-Kelly replace Tort with the Cort?

Howard is hopeful that Dublin’s mayor, Sinn Fein’s Christy Burke, will accept the petition. “He is D4, after all.”

Hoisted by your own retard, as it were.

 

[Hector Grey]

I'd love to know what he actually meant, which is why I asked.

It came across like he meant people that dress a certain way are scumbags.
Difficult to read it any other way really.

But what makes you make the leap that people who dress a certain way are poor? They dress that way because the mortgage is killing them, taxes have gone up, they were self employed and business went under and they can't get the dole? They have 3 kids on a single income? They've been sick for a year but can't afford to go to the doctor because they don't have a medical card? There's holes in the shoes because the kids have to get shoes first and there's 3 of them?

Seriously, my original point was "what's poor?"

 

[Hector Grey]

It's the perceived notion that D4 equals affluent equals oppressing the working class that I'm objecting to. The descriptions of D4 and more generally the "leafy suburbs" in this thread fit no more with reality than picking a less salubrious post code and saying they're all scumbags. It's not about perceived slights, it's about lazy cultural shorthand which don't hold up to scrutiny.

Just because being called a scumbag is worse than being called a posho, it doesn't make the shorthand approach to stereotyping any less valid. If you only take broad strokes in either direction, you're just living in a fantasy world. Group think just reinforces this us versus them mentality, the world's problems always being someone else's fault as opposed to a web of complex social, financial, political and educational situations.

Or go with poshos took all the money and scumbags are looking to rob it (check your address to see which one you are).

Sher, the Poshos are the ones paying all the taxes, so the Scumbags are robbing it. Am I right? Am I right?

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

But what makes you make the leap that people who dress a certain way are poor? They dress that way because the mortgage is killing them, taxes have gone up, they were self employed and business went under and they can't get the dole? They have 3 kids on a single income? They've been sick for a year but can't afford to go to the doctor because they don't have a medical card? There's holes in the shoes because the kids have to get shoes first and there's 3 of them?

Seriously, my original point was "what's poor?"

Poor is the 15%-odd of people that live below the poverty line. Those trapped in welfare and what economists call "the working poor".

Now, I'd still like to know what a scumbag is, because there is a tendency to use the term to refer to anyone from a particular area or looks a certain way.
To wit "At least they're not scumbags"

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Now, I'd still like to know what a scumbag is.

Whatever you think it means when you use the word, surely? I use it for people who behave aggressively/violently/etc for no reason other than they want to, regardless of where they're from. I'm above all this d4 posho stuff because I'm from the bog.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

Whatever you think it means when you use the word, surely?

I never use it, unless discussing the term itself. It's too loaded for me.

 

[therealjohnny]

Isn't this just the old "what is a chav..what is a skanger" arguement?

 

[Unicron]

So anyway, people with silly glasses who work as "creatives."

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

Isn't this just the old "what is a chav..what is a skanger" arguement?

Scumbag is worse, to my ears anyway. Certainly where I grew up it's about the worst you could call someone.

 

[Hector Grey]

Poor is the 15%-odd of people that live below the poverty line. Those trapped in welfare and what economists call "the working poor".

Now, I'd still like to know what a scumbag is.

And you're saying that these people all dress alike? They have one look?

If you're in the shop and you come out and your bike has been nicked, it's been nicked by a scumbag.

If you're walking down the road with the kids and they run through some dog shit that some lazy cunt didn't pick up, that person is a scumbag.

If you're on the bike and you're run off the road by some prick in a car that's too fucking large for the street it's on, and he just doesn't give a fuck about you because his business is more important, then you'd be perfectly within your rights to shout "scumbag" after him, not that he'd hear. Knobjockey works well in these situations too.

If you're standing outside the pub at 2 in the morning and you're giddy with the drink and some guy walking by decides he just doesn't like the cut of your jib and he gives you a punch, he's a scumbag. If he's with some mates and they all decide to give you a kicking for no apparent reason, that's the group noun innit, a gick of scumbags.

If you're walking back to your hotel in Majorca and you see a guy hitting his girlfriend because she's too drunk to walk in a straight line you will intervene because that man is a scumbag.

Ben Thatcher is a scumbag.

Kim Jon Un is a scumbag.

Tony Soprano is a scumbag.

When you find your laptop, and all your stuff, has been nicked, OOOOOOH you better believe it was a scumbag that did it.

Your mate when he drops something on the filthy floor floor but picks it up really quick and eats it and you cay "you scumbag!" He's a scumbag. Or not. It all depends.

This isn't race hatred. This isn't class warfare, This is just saying there should be an acceptable level of behaviour among us all, and if you fall below that level, deliberately, you're a scumbag. Or a knobjockey. Or a tosspot. Or a gouger. Or a cockpilot. Or whatever your particular poison is.

 

[Hector Grey]

Scumbag is worse, to my ears anyway. Certainly where I grew up it's about the worst you could call someone.

By all means, lets apply that parochialism to all of society, and all of society's poor people.

 

[therealjohnny]

While wearing a tracksuit do you walk around mashing your testicles? You are in the Social etiquette danger zone buddy

 

[therealjohnny]

And you're saying that these people all dress alike? They have one look?

If you're in the shop and you come out and your bike has been nicked, it's been nicked by a scumbag.

If you're walking down the road with the kids and they run through some dog shit that some lazy cunt didn't pick up, that person is a scumbag.

If you're on the bike and you're run off the road by some prick in a car that's too fucking large for the street it's on, and he just doesn't give a fuck about you because his business is more important, then you'd be perfectly within your rights to shout "scumbag" after him, not that he'd hear. Knobjockey works well in these situations too.

If you're standing outside the pub at 2 in the morning and you're giddy with the drink and some guy walking by decides he just doesn't like the cut of your jib and he gives you a punch, he's a scumbag. If he's with some mates and they all decide to give you a kicking for no apparent reason, that's the group noun innit, a gick of scumbags.

If you're walking back to your hotel in Majorca and you see a guy hitting his girlfriend because she's too drunk to walk in a straight line you will intervene because that man is a scumbag.

Ben Thatcher is a scumbag.

Kim Jon Un is a scumbag.

Tony Soprano is a scumbag.

When you find your laptop, and all your stuff, has been nicked, OOOOOOH you better believe it was a scumbag that did it.

Your mate when he drops something on the filthy floor floor but picks it up really quick and eats it and you cay "you scumbag!" He's a scumbag. Or not. It all depends.

This isn't race hatred. This isn't class warfare, This is just saying there should be an acceptable level of behaviour among us all, and if you fall below that level, deliberately, you're a scumbag. Or a knobjockey. Or a tosspot. Or a gouger. Or a cockpilot. Or whatever your particular poison is.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

And you're saying that these people all dress alike? They have one look?

Not even slightly. I was arguing the opposite.
I was asking if he meant that. I was trying to understand what he meant by 'scumbag'

I know exactly what it means. It just depends on who's saying it.

Some people use it dismissively to refer to people that look a certain way or belong to a particular class; generally those at an economic disadvantage.

That's why I asked. I'd still like to know. Particularly how we can tell if someone is a scumbag based on how they look.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

By all means, lets apply that parochialism to all of society, and all of society's poor people.

Let's be clear. It's someone else that has called a group 'scumbags', not me.
I was trying to see how wide or narrow he was casting the net.

I know what poor means. I know what scumbag means. I was asking how much overlap was intended in the comment, because people conflate the two too often and it's a sore point for me.

I wasn't applying it. I was asking if he was.

If he meant people below the poverty line living in the flats that wear tracksuits, then he's talking about my relatives, and I take exception to it.

 

[Hector Grey]

I think we know who did that.