In defence of hipsters (2 Viewers)

[oh shit]

but i think it's a ridiculous article, shurely the fact that everyone looks the same, acts the same, and treats everything as disposable and shallow is one big symptom of first world social media creating tiny tiny attention spans and instant access to all the world's knowledge. when everything's there, everything's the same.

edit: ie it's got fuck all to do with beck

 

[D0njo]

but i think it's a ridiculous article, shurely the fact that everyone looks the same, acts the same, and treats everything as disposable and shallow is one big symptom of first world social media creating tiny tiny attention spans and instant access to all the world's knowledge. when everything's there, everything's the same.

edit: ie it's got fuck all to do with beck

It's totally Becks fault, didn't you even read the article? Ah no, I agree with ya.
It's a bit odd to use Beck as the crux of the argument alright but it kind of makes sense.. to crucify him for the sake of making a point.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Some notes on that article:

leaving aside the Beck bits (because I haven't listened to enough Beck) and his weird digression into film studies (because it shouldn't have been there):

1) To begin with, this is how the writer describes himself

Although he grew up in a remote Scottish fishing village, Wallace had a destiny even he could not foresee. One day he would be living in an American city that birthed two of the most overrated bands of all time, and a stone cold musical genius. Can you figure it out? Each week is filled with sexy and exciting adventures overflowing with intrigue and ambiguity. In his spare time he writes for Collapse Board

so i'd like to know exactly where he places himself in the ironic scheme of things. Does he think he is in someway outside of this culture?

2) He immediately undermines his own argument that

With unhappiness no fear of cliché exists

by pointing out that

disclaimers such as “God, I’m so emo” do occasionally follow emotional outbursts.

3)

Among most “indie” people in their twenties and thirties, hip-hop and R & B seem to be appreciated on the same level as “I’m On a Boat” or “Bed Intruder Song”. It is called awesome and quoted for comedic effect, while serious discussion is saved for artists such as Arcade Fire, Fleet Foxes or even Lady Gaga.

or.... MIA or Big Boi or Janelle Monae .

Basically it appears that he is surpised that suburban people often identify easier with music about the suburbs that probably reflects their experience... Or are we to think that Rebecca Black's Friday was a joke merely because a black guy rapped for a few seconds in it (or, god forbid, HER NAME. SO IRONIC).

4)

In the case of ironic indie fans, though, the question should be asked: what purpose does hip-hop serve in their life? If it is to provide cheap laughs when quoting it at length, gangster rap (or indeed any sufficiently misogynistic or violent rap) fits the bill. In this context more intelligent approaches to rap just don’t work.

What purpose should it serve their life? If they are self-described indie fans then they're not gonna know everything about rap. They'll get the bigger, more controversial stuff first.

Like someone who doesn't know anything about Punk getting the Sex Pistols before they buy their... I dunno.... Knifed discography.

5)

Each generation, and each individual within that imaginary grouping labeled a generation, must at some point face something of a reckoning. This reckoning is the moment when a person chooses whether they will continue to believe in the notion of struggle in regards to preserving their individuality, or whether they will capitulate and buy into the mainstream.

hahaha, and then they become... perhaps... an adult. and stop being so overdramatic about buying a pop record.

speaking of THE MAINSTREAM

6)

Mainstream music revels in easy sentiment and soul-crushing banality and can only truly be enjoyed by not paying attention to the lyrics.

What? WHAT???? This is insane, this statement is presented as a truism but there's so much wrong with I don't even know where to begin. It is factually incorrect.

Also in this day and age of niche markets what the hell is 'mainstream music' anymore anyway?


7)

If you could make a crass joke and appear unconcerned, then you looked like the winner in any argument. Despite being all but ubiquitous and a couple of decades old, the ironic persona at this point shows no signs of dying off.

Correct, Oscar Wilde died over a hundred years ago and people still enjoy a bit of wordplay.

on the other hand I don't know when's the last time someone got away with a rape joke.


(actually, what happened with those Corrib police?)

8)

Beck’s music is more reminisced about than listened to.

Chuck Berry's music is more reminisced about than listened to.

9)

Beck chose an aloof self-awareness that wallowed in facile cleverness and helped spawn thousands of pavictoryssionless, smug clones who all but necessitated the creation of American Apparel so they could snap up every gaudy, shiny piece of pseudo-nerd attire.

Yes, well, maybe. Chromeo are pretty shit and American Apparel is a fairly abhorrent company.

10)

When the ironic tide rolls back, his reputation will completely disappear with it and a whole generation of people will wonder why so many before them appeared so delighted to be powerless and superficial. Beck’s music will be the museum piece that provides cultural clues, but it will have no artistic worth of its own. Those who knowingly revel in the shallowest artistic waters deserve nothing less.

Well.... assuming he's correct about Beck being artistically worthless and also assuming that irony disappears at some point. Which, as he pointed out, it shows no signs of doing.

I was gonna end this by saying 'i'm not saying he doesn't have some good points' but you know what, he doesn't. It's a total mess, he hates indie fans who listen to indie music, he hates indie fans who listen to music that isn't indie, he hates indie fans who don't listen to music in the way he wants them to listen to music. His only point that I can see is IRONIC HIPSTERS ARE STUPID AND I AM TOTALLY NOT ONE OF THEM.


that and he regrets all those Beck albums he bought in the 90's.

 

[ann post]

put that in the comments section for the craic.

 

[Lili Marlene]

nah, i'm already pulling apart my own 'argument'.

At the end of the day he's right, DEATH TO FALSE HIPSTERS.

 

[Unicron]

I think Lost Cause is a lovely tune. And that's about all I have to say about Beck.

No wait ... also, the marionettes were awesome, sincerely.

 

[Space]

i mean it's about how he's culturally vapid and basically shit, it's not his biography

I was equating his being culturally vapid and basically shit to his belief in being an alien being invented by L. Ron Hubbard. It wasn't an entirely serious point but, if we could somehow blame Scientology for everything the author here blames Beck for I'd be very happy (for a few seconds before receding back to clichéd unhappiness).

 

[D0njo]

Some notes on that article:

leaving aside the Beck bits (because I haven't listened to enough Beck) and his weird digression into film studies (because it shouldn't have been there):

1) To begin with, this is how the writer describes himself




so i'd like to know exactly where he places himself in the ironic scheme of things. Does he think he is in someway outside of this culture?

2) He immediately undermines his own argument that by pointing out that


3)

or.... MIA or Big Boi or Janelle Monae .

Basically it appears that he is surpised that suburban people often identify easier with music about the suburbs that probably reflects their experience... Or are we to think that Rebecca Black's Friday was a joke merely because a black guy rapped for a few seconds in it (or, god forbid, HER NAME. SO IRONIC).

4)

What purpose should it serve their life? If they are self-described indie fans then they're not gonna know everything about rap. They'll get the bigger, more controversial stuff first.

Like someone who doesn't know anything about Punk getting the Sex Pistols before they buy their... I dunno.... Knifed discography.

5)

hahaha, and then they become... perhaps... an adult. and stop being so overdramatic about buying a pop record.

speaking of THE MAINSTREAM

6)

What? WHAT???? This is insane, this statement is presented as a truism but there's so much wrong with I don't even know where to begin. It is factually incorrect.

Also in this day and age of niche markets what the hell is 'mainstream music' anymore anyway?


7)

Correct, Oscar Wilde died over a hundred years ago and people still enjoy a bit of wordplay.

on the other hand I don't know when's the last time someone got away with a rape joke.


(actually, what happened with those Corrib police?)

8)

Chuck Berry's music is more reminisced about than listened to.

9)

Yes, well, maybe. Chromeo are pretty shit and American Apparel is a fairly abhorrent company.

10)

Well.... assuming he's correct about Beck being artistically worthless and also assuming that irony disappears at some point. Which, as he pointed out, it shows no signs of doing.

I was gonna end this by saying 'i'm not saying he doesn't have some good points' but you know what, he doesn't. It's a total mess, he hates indie fans who listen to indie music, he hates indie fans who listen to music that isn't indie, he hates indie fans who don't listen to music in the way he wants them to listen to music. His only point that I can see is IRONIC HIPSTERS ARE STUPID AND I AM TOTALLY NOT ONE OF THEM.


that and he regrets all those Beck albums he bought in the 90's.

Are you being ironic?

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Shit - I had a whole thing typed there and accidentally deleted it.
Anyway.
I'm sure you could pick holes in his argument but when he talks about the shallow affect and not really caring about things - he's right.
I constantly gripe abut the death of enthusiasm, then when I'm confronted by someone who takes something serious and actually gives a shit my first reaction is "how fucking gauche"

 

[Scientician 0.8]

shurely the fact that everyone looks the same, acts the same, and treats everything as disposable and shallow is one big symptom of first world social media creating tiny tiny attention spans and instant access to all the world's knowledge.

That's hardly a fact though is it? Ok, youth (ie younger than 40 ) subcultures in the tightly delineated, differentiated mould don't really exist anymore, but the idea that everybody treats everything as a bit of a laugh isn't borne out by my experience. Of course, there's some irony, some playfulness, involved in a lot of people's musical taste, but I think it reflects a bigger openmindedness, partially fueled by easy access to the cornucopia of music past and present. I know plenty of people who have a passionate and deep love for, and knowledge of, the music they primarily listen to, be it indie, dubstep, folk or whatever.

 

[SomethingManic]

I love music in all it's forms

 

[D0njo]

Some notes on that article:

Chuck Berry's music is more reminisced about than listened to.
.

I'm not going to go through everything you typed in your critique of a critique of hipsters but Chuck Berry isn't really in the same league as Beck... I mean, Chuck Berry invented that one legged hop along guitar move thing. Different league altogether.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Shit - I had a whole thing typed there and accidentally deleted it. Anyway. I'm sure you could pick holes in his argument but when he talks about the shallow affect and not really caring about things - he's right. I constantly gripe abut the death of enthusiasm, then when I'm confronted by someone who takes something serious and actually gives a shit my first reaction is "how fucking gauche"

It took a lot of fucking enthusiasm to type of my post there, let me tell you. He's not right, he'd rather dismiss large sections of culture as 'mainstream' junk than actually try and deal with them. Fuck him and dated teddy adorno ideas.Edit: well, you're probably right in actuality. There's just something very smug and prickish about that article.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

he wrote multiple pages on this bulshit theory.
i think he suffers from an overweening sense of his own cleverness. this is just a hipster version of the 'david hasselhoff ended the cold war' argument.
get a real job hipster.

(and I listen to both beck and chuck berry!)

 

[egg_]

I like this line

"Consumerism thrives on people getting excited about, and buying, things that they ultimately don’t care about."

But actually I'm not sure if it's true. Sometimes people buy things, and listen to things, for their social value rather than their value to the individual and you know what? That's ok

I like Beck, btw, or at least his 1st 2 albums which are the only ones I have. You don't necessarily need coherent lyrics to convey emotion, and besides music to dance to is just as valid an art-form as music to emote to. These days I listen almost exclusively to the former

 

[CinnamonBoy]

That's hardly a fact though is it? Ok, youth (ie younger than 40 ) subcultures in the tightly delineated, differentiated mould don't really exist anymore, but the idea that everybody treats everything as a bit of a laugh isn't borne out by my experience. Of course, there's some irony, some playfulness, involved in a lot of people's musical taste, but I think it reflects a bigger openmindedness, partially fueled by easy access to the cornucopia of music past and present. I know plenty of people who have a passionate and deep love for, and knowledge of, the music they primarily listen to, be it indie, dubstep, folk or whatever.

I like this.
I was watching a Best of the Tube yesterday and saw a load of 80s kids watching Grandmaster Flash and George Clinton so I don't get his whole hipsters only listen to r'n'b/hip-hop for comedy value or whatever it was he was saying. There's always been crossover when the music's good.

And John, you're shit. Chromeo are fucking deadly.

 

[Carlow Punks!]

I know plenty of people who have a passionate and deep love for, and knowledge of, the music they primarily listen to, be it indie, dubstep, folk or whatever.

In general I pretend to have a deep and passionate love for whatever music the woman I'm talking to at that particular moment loves.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

http://accidentalchinesehipsters.tumblr.com/

 

[Jerry Twig]

Some notes on that article:

leaving aside the Beck bits (because I haven't listened to enough Beck) and his weird digression into film studies (because it shouldn't have been there):

1) To begin with, this is how the writer describes himself




so i'd like to know exactly where he places himself in the ironic scheme of things. Does he think he is in someway outside of this culture?

2) He immediately undermines his own argument that by pointing out that


3)

or.... MIA or Big Boi or Janelle Monae .

Basically it appears that he is surpised that suburban people often identify easier with music about the suburbs that probably reflects their experience... Or are we to think that Rebecca Black's Friday was a joke merely because a black guy rapped for a few seconds in it (or, god forbid, HER NAME. SO IRONIC).

4)

What purpose should it serve their life? If they are self-described indie fans then they're not gonna know everything about rap. They'll get the bigger, more controversial stuff first.

Like someone who doesn't know anything about Punk getting the Sex Pistols before they buy their... I dunno.... Knifed discography.

5)

hahaha, and then they become... perhaps... an adult. and stop being so overdramatic about buying a pop record.

speaking of THE MAINSTREAM

6)

What? WHAT???? This is insane, this statement is presented as a truism but there's so much wrong with I don't even know where to begin. It is factually incorrect.

Also in this day and age of niche markets what the hell is 'mainstream music' anymore anyway?


7)

Correct, Oscar Wilde died over a hundred years ago and people still enjoy a bit of wordplay.

on the other hand I don't know when's the last time someone got away with a rape joke.


(actually, what happened with those Corrib police?)

8)

Chuck Berry's music is more reminisced about than listened to.

9)

Yes, well, maybe. Chromeo are pretty shit and American Apparel is a fairly abhorrent company.

10)

Well.... assuming he's correct about Beck being artistically worthless and also assuming that irony disappears at some point. Which, as he pointed out, it shows no signs of doing.

I was gonna end this by saying 'i'm not saying he doesn't have some good points' but you know what, he doesn't. It's a total mess, he hates indie fans who listen to indie music, he hates indie fans who listen to music that isn't indie, he hates indie fans who don't listen to music in the way he wants them to listen to music. His only point that I can see is IRONIC HIPSTERS ARE STUPID AND I AM TOTALLY NOT ONE OF THEM.


that and he regrets all those Beck albums he bought in the 90's.

I have no idea what all this is about (I thought this thread would be cheap poking of fun at lads in girls jeans), but the above looks like an awful waste of time and energy.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Maybe you've all been discussing this already but apparently the hipster is dead - here is a book about it:
http://www.bookforum.com/review/6620