if this is true, tis mighty cool (1 Viewer)

[Mr Creosote]

From the Nada Surf website. Bear with me on this..

'i've just started a book called temperament. it's about equal-tempered tuning. i'm only 30 pages into the book, so i still can't explain it quite right, but basically, we collectively decided, somewhere in the middle of the 18th century, to split up the octave into 12 equidistant notes, so that fixed-pitch instruments like pianos and harpsichords could be tuned right across all their keys. the thing is that we didn't hear notes as equidistant before. we heard something ever so slightly different that was actually more "true." but when composers started getting really ambitious and we started relying more and more on fixed-pitch instruments like the piano, they came up against limitations. it was found one could not get a piano to play in tune all up and down the keys. there were notes you had to avoid. so the idea was hatched to "bend" the relationship between notes just a little bit so that it would be more practical, even if it meant sacrificing a little bit of the quality that made certain harmonies sound so pleasant. supporters of the new "equal-tempered tuning" claimed that we would get used to the new way and learn to love it and hear it as normal. and that's exactly what happened.

but there are some people who listen only to music played the old way, to whom modern symphonies sound completely out of tune.'

It goes on. Anyway, does anyone know about this stuff or does a healthy appreciation of Sonic Youth etc mean a person was unwittingly already aware of this?

http://www.nadasurf.com/cgi-bin/readDiary.cgi?0

 

[Stuart Little]

When you hear traditional middle eastern music there are definitely 'notes' in there that, when we hear them, make us go "that's not music, that's just quivering your voice and hitting half-tones by mistake".

if you locked yourself in a room for 10 years with a fretless instrument you'd find yourself writing 'purer' music too.

it sure is hard to appreciate fully tho - other than for it's atmospheric qualities.

 

[Mr Creosote]

I'd say you're right, that it would take some getting used to, but it'd probably be incredible once you'd tuned into it. Heres a bit more from that site

'i was lucky enough to see the bulgarian female choir in concert a few years ago... we sat in the sixth row and it was incredible. 50 women in a semi-circle, wearing traditional bulgarian costumes, and performing without microphones. they were very loud and sang in a way i'd never heard before. they held a lot of notes that sounded almost like mistakes, but they held them for a long time, and after awhile you got used to it and they didn't sound like mistakes anymore, they sounded really beautiful. it was like all of a sudden understanding a tiny bit of another language'

 

[Pantone247]

Theres a guy called Buzz Fettin, who has developed a tuning system for the guitar that is more "true" to the *actual* notes, rather then the traditional method we have, which is just a compramise we've learned to accept over the years. From this way of thinking we can *never* tune to the scientific ideal notes, just a close appoximation. He got in lots of trouble cause he tried to copyright it... I think he did in the end.... anyway search for his name on Google and you'll find out more about stuff like that for the guitar.

Stevie Vai swears by Buzz's new tuning system, but don't let that put you off as Buzz did play guitar on stevie wonders Superstious

Its a funny one all that tuning stuff, its one of those things that sounds deadly when you first hear about it, but the more I read about the more I found myself going...."uh....so what?"

 

[Gav]

This is how a dijeridu is played. Most music that evolved through different cultures is like that. It seems that only Europeans limited ourselves.

 

[Pantone247]

its was explained to me that the reason this compramise was developed is that with string instruments as the strings get thicker for lower tones they react differently to being struck (or plucked) then the higher pitched, thiner strings. Different levels of movement when they vibrate. The thickness of string was never taken into account when music theroy was established, they just a theoretically "perfect" string

So as said they just balanced it out to a pleasent sounding average.

that guy Buzz reckons that where you play on the guitar neck affects this as well. If your playing on the first few frets you have to force the strings down a biy harder thus changing the tone (by tiny amouts) up higher you have to push down a fuirther distance so that also changes the tone... different strings, different size frets... you get to thinking its a miracle it works at all...

Buzz reckon his tuning system (which invoves repositioning the guitars nut, and tunning with harmonics) solves this. Other people would ask "why??"

 

[Keeror]

Run a google search for Just Intonation and you get the Just Intonation Network Web Site:
http://www.dnai.com/~jinetwk/
,with a little history of just intonation vs. 12 tone equal temperament.

Also visit http://www.harrypartch.com , website of C20th US composer Harry Partch, who in addition to developing his own 43-tone scale invented many original and beautiful instruments, such as the cloud chamber bells, made of glass. This site also has links to info on Just Intonation.

Alternatively, just wait till Osimono gets a hold of this thread...you'll be very sorry you asked the question.

And you don't have to go as far as the middle east to hear wonky voices with lots of wild vibrato and micro tones- just switch on Radio na Gaeltachta and wait for some sean-nós.

 

[Keeror]

PS that should be Cloud Chamber Bowls, not bells.

PPS weren't Nada Surf the authors of a Weezer-esque highschool pop-grunge anthem of a few years back?
"My mom says I'm a catch, I'm pop-u-lah-ar"...

 

[Mr Creosote]

Yep, that song was called 'Popular' and it was off their debut 'High/Low'. However, I reckon their second album 'The Proximity Effect' is far better. Problem is, is that their record company didn't hear another MTV hit like Popular on it and pulled its release. Nada Surf then set up their own label and released it - you can get it through their site for $10. They'll have a new album out early this year.

 

[Anne OMalley]

Yep, that's more or less true, although "western" music would be more accurate nowadays.

(I refer especially to the theme from "The Magnificent Seven".)

Still, even in the west there were always musical forms that exploited those in-between notes e.g. blues guitar-playing, Irish traditional fiddle-playing and so on. This is what gives some of that music a "sqeaky character" that either jogs your soul into a state of rapture, or causes you to choke and splutter into your flute of Vervier - depending on your social aspirations and relative hollowness of same.

Gav (07 Jan, 2002 12:44 p.m.):
This is how a dijeridu is played. Most music that evolved through different cultures is like that. It seems that only Europeans limited ourselves.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

this is real jimmy cake land. stewart, i thought you was cool, nuffin burra nerd. jeez.

 

[Stuart Little]

if you like I could edit my post to read:

"that's a load of hogwash and poppycock. you're just making excuses for badly trained musicians with badly tuned instruments. stop wasting everbody's time and get the fuck over to the euro thread."

ps.
Hag looks like Sam from coronation street

 

[Ex-User (250)]

your edited post is still completely gay, full of manners and the like. can you post a piccy of sam? i don't do the soaps and i don't wash either. such a let-down. you showed such promise and from an early age too!

 

[Stuart Little]

Why post a pic? i told ya: He Looks Like You.

Find a mirror, or better yet, a still pond to look in. Careful you don't fall over when you're kissing yourself on the forehead though cos a baby can drown in an inch of water.

 

[Anne OMalley]

That's true. And an old bloke can drown by falling head first into a barrel, as RTE pointed out in the classic 70s public information film "Where's Grandad?".

Stuart Little (08 Jan, 2002 03:16 p.m.):
Why post a pic? i told ya: He Looks Like You.

Find a mirror, or better yet, a still pond to look in. Careful you don't fall over when you're kissing yourself on the forehead though cos a baby can drown in an inch of water.

 

[Stuart Little]

Are you sure that wasn't a sketch from RTE's hit 80s irish language series "anois is arís"? That's just the type of hilarious scene they'd use to reinforce the tuiseal guinideach of the verb "to drown".

 

[chriths]

fuck! remember those dreadful things! poor grandad!

 

[Anne OMalley]

Arrah, g'wan. Everyone knows the genitive case is for nouns, not verbs.

The GENITAL case, now, that's different. That's where I store the family jewels when I'm at mass.

Stuart Little (08 Jan, 2002 03:41 p.m.):
Are you sure that wasn't a sketch from RTE's hit 80s irish language series "anois is arís"? That's just the type of hilarious scene they'd use to reinforce the tuiseal guinideach of the verb "to drown".

 

[Stuart Little]

Check below for syntax grammatical errors:

Nach mór an trua nach bhfuil tú i do mhuinteoir a Aine?
Ba cheart go mbeadh do clár féin agat ar an teilifís.
Is feidir a bheith cinnte go mbeadh mise i do 'fan' is mó.

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[Anne OMalley]

You're first with the candles on Sunday, mousey.

Stuart Little (08 Jan, 2002 03:53 p.m.):
Check below for syntax grammatical errors:

Nach mór an trua nach bhfuil tú i do mhuinteoir a Aine?
Ba cheart go mbeadh do clár féin agat ar an teilifís.
Is feidir a bheith cinnte go mbeadh mise i do 'fan' is mó.

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