Government to collapse tonight? (1 Viewer)

[avernus]

If populist career-politicians aren't your thing, you might want to take a long, hard look at where you're throwing your first preference.

hehehe

 

[P. Littbarski]

If populist career-politicians aren't your thing, you might want to take a long, hard look at where you're throwing your first preference.

I have, and the reason he gets my first preference vote is not so much that I agree with his approach to politics...or his political beliefs in general, but because I feel that someone like joe higgins is needed to remind us all that it's not just all about making money & increasing the performance of our economy, but there are other issues that need public attention, issues that your average fianna failer/gailer, PD etc. won't raise

Given the recent polls about immigration, immigrants etc. I would be unable to, for example, call his campaign addressing the exploitation of migrant workers populist ...far from it. Most Irish people couldn't care less if migrant workers were being exploited. Yet he addressed the issue and some good came out of it.

To be honest I have very little faith in most (all?) politicians, but I also belive that voting is important, which is a bit of a dilemma. I am sure I'm not alone in this...having to take a "lesser of two evils" approach when voting...in a way it is a very unsatisfying way of conducting politics but hey, at least we have a choice to make.

out of interest, who would get your first preference vote ?

 

[Jerry Twig]

Joe Higgins

my hero. also my TD.

he embarrassed himself badly on the bin tax issue. tony gregory i like, cos he talks to the animals

 

[Goff]

If populist career-politicians aren't your thing, you might want to take a long, hard look at where you're throwing your first preference.

Oh, Belle....Even I don't think Joe H. is a populist.

You serious? He's not even in my Constituency but I'd prefer to vote for him over ANY of of the choices I have.

I might not agree with ALL his politics, but, right or wrong, do you not think HE believes in what he does? Is that not worth something?

 

[Bellatrix]

Oh, Belle....Even I don't think Joe H. is a populist.

You serious? He's not even in my Constituency but I'd prefer to vote for him over ANY of of the choices I have.

I might not agree with ALL his politics, but, right or wrong, do you not think HE believes in what he does? Is that not worth something?

I'm not saying it isn't useful to have people like Higgins in the Dail and I certainly think he does an excellent job of publicising certain issues (the exploitation of migrant workers etc).

Nevertheless, I sincerely hope you don't believe that all that "worker's TD on a worker's wage"/"fighting for real people (whatever those are)" stuff isn't aimed at gaining broad appeal in his contituency (Dublin West). He and the other candidates from his party are no less packaged than your local FF/FG TD. They're just not chasing the same votes.

 

[Goff]

I'm not saying it isn't useful to have people like Higgins in the Dail and I certainly think he does an excellent job of publicising certain issues (the exploitation of migrant workers etc).

Nevertheless, I sincerely hope you don't believe that all that "worker's TD on a worker's wage"/"fighting for real people (whatever those are)" stuff isn't aimed at gaining broad appeal in his contituency (Dublin West). He and the other candidates from his party are no less packaged than your local FF/FG TD. They're just not chasing the same votes.

Having spoken to him a few times, through work and outside, he's most definitely committed to what he believes in. And he's up front about it. And, strangely for a politico in this country, he has manners and genuinely seems to take an interest in what you have to say.

There is no comparison between the packaging of Higgins et al and Bertie's cohorts. The make-up bill alone is testament to that. Every politician needs to have broad appeal. And, what a lot of people seem to forget, Joe Higgins' constituency is full of very rich people too. A lot of them.

They are, of course, chasing the same votes.

Just in a different way.

 

[Eddie Gorilla]

he embarrassed himself badly on the bin tax issue. tony gregory i like, cos he talks to the animals

well surrrrrre he talks to the animals, but does he fucken wallllllk with the animals?







didn thnk so.

 

[Bellatrix]

They are, of course, chasing the same votes.

Just in a different way.

Huh? I don't think there's any way you can spin Socialist Party policy that will make it appeal to the average, middle-class farmer, nor are Higgins et al particularly interested in doing so. Every party targets certain demographics to whom they figure their policies will appeal.

At constituency and local level, sure, they're essentially chasing the same votes but Fine Gael tend not to do well in areas with a strong Socialist candidate and vice versa.

 

[taubstumm]

Nevertheless, I sincerely hope you don't believe that all that "worker's TD on a worker's wage"/"fighting for real people (whatever those are)" stuff isn't aimed at gaining broad appeal in his contituency (Dublin West).

of course it's aimed at getting a broader appeal, but this ignores the possibility that the man himself might do it because he regards it as a personal moral act, whereas you seem to be implying that the whole purpose of it is as a piece of political theatre.

i have an innate distrust of all politicians and would generally avoid trying to defend them, but i think it's unfair and misleading to cast joe higgins in with the rest of them. i have problems with his ideology, certainly, but i think that even his opponents would concede that the man is the real deal. there's a difference between popular and populist.

 

[Bellatrix]

of course it's aimed at getting a broader appeal, but this ignores the possibility that the man himself might do it because he regards it as a personal moral act, whereas you seem to be implying that the whole purpose of it is as a piece of political theatre.

Not the whole purpose but I do think it's a combination of both. Higgins is a masterful self-publicist.

Also, I resent this notion that there's Joe Higgins and then there's "the rest of them", which, incidentally, is exactly how Higgins wants people to feel. Many politicians do great work but because they don't engage in the same level of rabble-rousing are somehow regarded as having less integrity.

 

[taubstumm]

Not the whole purpose but I do think it's a combination of both. Higgins is a masterful self-publicist.

Also, I resent this notion that there's Joe Higgins and then there's "the rest of them", which, incidentally, is exactly how Higgins wants people to feel. Many politicians do great work but because they don't engage in the same level of rabble-rousing are somehow regarded as having less integrity.

well, i guess this is a case where we'll have to... agree to disagree!

i don't agree to that.

neither do i.

 

[Goff]

It's looking increasingly likely that the Govt. will remain in power. Just goes to show how fickle the mob is. "Ah, sure he didn't mean anything by it." was overheard by me on the bus.

We deserve all we get. Two dishonest, power-hungry, wasters.

I'm sure the giveaway budget we're all now expecting in a couple of months will make us all forget what has happened in the last two years.

BUT:

The PD's are dead in the water. Without the PD's, FF won't get a majority.

So where's the incentive to give that lovely budget?

 

[aoboa]

Do you reckon Harney's hasty departure had anything to do with this?

 

[ernesto]

Do you reckon Harney's hasty departure had anything to do with this?

yes

 

[Goff]

Here, anyone know what's going on outside the Dáil? Load of newsies and Green Party and Labour heads there.

Bertie'll be gone out the back way. I saw Mary Hanafin snaking out earlier when I was in the ChazMahal.

 

[Dixer]

Here, anyone know what's going on outside the Dáil? Load of newsies and Green Party and Labour heads there.

Bertie'll be gone out the back way. I saw Mary Hanafin snaking out earlier when I was in the ChazMahal.

Berties Speech:
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=14309&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[Unicron]

After seeing the coverage on RTE earlier I reckon Bertie'll get through this now. Whether he's part of the next government is another thing but it's too early to tell.

Kenny is an incredibly dull speaker but made some good points, I thought Rabbitte was the best of all the guys who spoke after Bertie. I zoned out when Higgins, Gormley and the Shinner guy whose name I know but can't spell started going off topic on tangents not associated with the current scandal. I can understand why they want their moment in the sun but what they were saying was irrelevant for the most part.

I did think that the SF guy's speech was interesting, the only party in the Dail that would go into power with them is Fianna Fail and it really sounded as though he was burning his bridges on that one.

 

[Polo]

If populist career-politicians aren't your thing, you might want to take a long, hard look at where you're throwing your first preference.

This just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Joe Higgins is a politician, sure, but if he's career oriented what the hell is he doing in the Socialist Party? And for that matter what the hell is he doing giving most of his salary away? The man, simply through being able to string a few sentences together coherently, is the best speaker in the Dáil. In any other political party he'd be guaranteed a front bench position. All he'd have to do is ditch his principles, something which has never been a problem for most of our political elite. But instead he plugs away for the Socialist Party, which (more's the pity) isn't going to be storming to power in his political lifetime! As for populist, that implies that he espouses opinions because he thinks they'll be popular... again the man is in the Socialist Party(!!!) and has been a socialist all of his adult life. I think you'll find that there are easier ways to popularity than that.

On the "workers representative on a workers wage" thing (ie the fact that Higgins gives away most of his income), that isn't something he came up with. It's been an old socialist principle since the days of the Paris Commune that public representatives shouldn't have an income or lifestyle massively beyond those of the people they are claiming to represent.

Also you say that you resent this notion that there's Joe Higgins and then there's "the rest of them", but the thing is that essentially it's true. There are a couple of other people in the Dáil I have some time for (Seamas Healy for instance) but most of them are best described as "the rest of them", at least if you are trying to be polite about the bastards. And, yes, given all the things that are wrong with this country there is something wrong with any politician who isn't out there "rabble rousing".

 

[nlgbbbblth]

Only one party in the country runs enough candidates to win an overall majority.

Can you think of any other countries where this happens?

 

[taubstumm]

Only one party in the country runs enough candidates to win an overall majority.

Can you think of any other countries where this happens?

em.. the u.k.?

total: 646 seats
labour: 353 seats

am i missing something here?

This just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Joe Higgins is a politician, sure, but if he's career oriented what the hell is he doing in the Socialist Party? And for that matter what the hell is he doing giving most of his salary away? The man, simply through being able to string a few sentences together coherently, is the best speaker in the Dáil. In any other political party he'd be guaranteed a front bench position. All he'd have to do is ditch his principles, something which has never been a problem for most of our political elite. But instead he plugs away for the Socialist Party, which (more's the pity) isn't going to be storming to power in his political lifetime! As for populist, that implies that he espouses opinions because he thinks they'll be popular... again the man is in the Socialist Party(!!!) and has been a socialist all of his adult life. I think you'll find that there are easier ways to popularity than that.

On the "workers representative on a workers wage" thing (ie the fact that Higgins gives away most of his income), that isn't something he came up with. It's been an old socialist principle since the days of the Paris Commune that public representatives shouldn't have an income or lifestyle massively beyond those of the people they are claiming to represent.

Also you say that you resent this notion that there's Joe Higgins and then there's "the rest of them", but the thing is that essentially it's true. There are a couple of other people in the Dáil I have some time for (Seamas Healy for instance) but most of them are best described as "the rest of them", at least if you are trying to be polite about the bastards. And, yes, given all the things that are wrong with this country there is something wrong with any politician who isn't out there "rabble rousing".

i've just doled out what the communards called 'le rep points'