fundit, infographic, well? (1 Viewer)

[pete]

ah no it's not. at worst it's preordering and in reality can be a whole lot more

A Warm Fuzzy feeling upon donating to see a creative project develop + Thank You credit on the project website + Your name included in Thank You list in the end credits of documentary + Director will call you to personally thank you for your contribution + Special behind-the -scenes updates on production + Admission to special VIP preview screening of film & book launch event including glass of champagne + Copy of hardback book + Choice of print from a selection available from the book​

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A limited and unique physical copy of the new recording accompanied by physical copies of our back catalogue which includes our very first e.p "150 degrees", our split 7", our album "Shut Up Your Face" and our single "Bothar Buí"​

A Weekend Ticket for the Hunters Moon Festival. Sea Dog - Wizards of the Coast - 12 Inch Record (One of the bands playing at the festival). A cotton tote bag screenprinted with the Hunters Moon Festival Logo (Designed by Jane Lives). A CDR Sampler of Festival Music. A postcard of the Hunters Moon Festival logo designed by Jane Lives. Good vibes to you for at least the next year sent out by the Hunters Moon Team! A Shout Out of on Our Website.

Funder will receive a 'Goody Bag' featuring the exclusive Audio CD and various other prizes. The funders name will be credited on the inside cover along with all the other funders

Vinyl Picture Disc Album (delivered directly to your door) + Download of album + Download of 3 non-album Singles: Embury Greenway The Space I Occupy The Hassle + 2 previous Windings albums on CD Old Like J/Armada Song 7" Single 3d Windings poster, with 3d Glasses! all delivered to your doorstep

 

[Scientician 0.8]

It's begging if they don't deliver the goods, and if record actually made yet... I'd be interested to see if that has yet happened or is there a mechanism for preventing it, other than ostracisation by your mates who gave you a few bob for the record.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Anyway as I say, my main problem with it is it wouldn't work for me.

 

[parx]

It's begging if they don't deliver the goods, and if record actually made yet... I'd be interested to see if that has yet happened or is there a mechanism for preventing it, other than ostracisation by your mates who gave you a few bob for the record.

No, it's not begging....... it's quite obvious from looking at the website that it's not begging. yeesh

 

[washingcattle]

It's begging if they don't deliver the goods, and if record actually made yet... I'd be interested to see if that has yet happened or is there a mechanism for preventing it, other than ostracisation by your mates who gave you a few bob for the record.

That's not begging that's fraud.

 

[pete]

if they don't deliver the goods...

yeah this is the one weakness with all crowdfunding i guess, but that's more fraud than begging.

i think anything i haven't received in return for funding was more the fault of me not going to events than anything else

 

[parx]

Im pretty sure every band ( that i've seen ) that has a a fundit campaign assures every donater that they will receive a copy of the album. so in its simplest terms, it's preordering. But realistically it's patronage, which means more I think

 

[Scientician 0.8]

OK maybe begging isn't quite the word I'm looking for then. The fact is almost everybody in my social circle is involved in the arts in some way, shape, or form. Most of my best and closest friends are musicians, a couple of them make a few bob out of it, most, at most, break even. I buy mainly Irish records, or am given records in lieu of payment for gigs or if I helped the band out in some way. They pay for these records the same way I paid for mine, by saving up their own money, or getting a bank loan or whatnot. I don't buy every record that comes out, just for the sake of it. I buy stuff I like. If I crowdfund you I've a) not heard your record yet so haven't a clue whether it's shit or not, or just not my bag and b) no idea when I'll actually receive the item I've paid for, a true pre-order typically has a cast iron delivery date surely? It's a nice idea in a way I suppose but it really sits with me wrong and I don't think it's entirely sour grapes (or maybe it is, entirely). I think, and I dunno why this is, I've less of an issue with crowdfunding for something like an exhibition, a festival, or other arts events but crowdfunding a CD. My last cd cost me precisely €700 in total to record and press. When I was in fulltime employment €700 was a paltry sum for me, which I promptly made back, gigging and selling my cd to people who'd either listened to a stream of it or enjoyed the live show. I mean it's your money to spend, fair play to ye, and best of luck to all those who get money out of people for their projects but it seems an odd way of operating, and if not actual begging seems to appeal to a similar impulse that panhandling, charity fundraising etc. do rather than actual industry.

Saying that, if anyone wants to paypal me money to help me record my next release you can send it to [email protected] I'll give a prominent thank you in the inlay, and you'll receive my gratitude and a free handwritten thank you letter.

 

[washingcattle]

The easiest way of rooting out those who commit fraud is the name and shame approach. Fundit should blacklist the offenders and there should be some extent to which reciepts should be produced proving where the patrons money went. Anything which isn't used for the purpose of producing the product stated on the site should be donated to something genuinely worth while.

I.e ask for a money to make a record and once the pre-orders can be filled, donate the money that would essentially be profit for doing nowt is donated to the simon community or Oxfam or Goal or someone who needs money a lot more than you.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

The easiest way of rooting out those who commit fraud is the name and shame approach. Fundit should blacklist the offenders and there should be some extent to which reciepts should be produced proving where the patrons money went. Anything which isn't used for the purpose of producing the product stated on the site should be donated to something genuinely worth while.

I.e ask for a money to make a record and once the pre-orders can be filled, donate the money that would essentially be profit for doing nowt is donated to the simon community or Oxfam or Goal or someone who needs money a lot more than you.

There's a problem though in that there are very real reasons why a project might be delayed, if not indefinitely, but by many months, for non-heinous reasons. At what point after the original delivery date do you take back the money? How is the money delivered to the fundee, would it even be possible to get the money out of them without taking them to the small claims court?

 

[pete]

I think parx; hit the nail on the head - ultimately it's patronage, not a contract.

 

[washingcattle]

Well if you promise a product in return for cash that's not patronage that's capitalism.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I think @parx; hit the nail on the head - ultimately it's patronage, not a contract.

Well if you promise a product in return for cash that's not patronage that's capitalism.

I think you've hit on the head one of my problems with album releases being funded this way, as opposed to other artistic endeavours. There is a very clear model extant for breaking even or making money on a music release, even at the most independent levels. It's hard work but it can and is done by many artists. Many of the other types of projects funded typically rely on some sort of patronage, be it corporate sponsorship or arts foundation endowments etc.

 

[washingcattle]

OK maybe begging isn't quite the word I'm looking for then. The fact is almost everybody in my social circle is involved in the arts in some way, shape, or form. Most of my best and closest friends are musicians, a couple of them make a few bob out of it, most, at most, break even. I buy mainly Irish records, or am given records in lieu of payment for gigs or if I helped the band out in some way. They pay for these records the same way I paid for mine, by saving up their own money, or getting a bank loan or whatnot. I don't buy every record that comes out, just for the sake of it. I buy stuff I like. If I crowdfund you I've a) not heard your record yet so haven't a clue whether it's shit or not, or just not my bag and b) no idea when I'll actually receive the item I've paid for, a true pre-order typically has a cast iron delivery date surely? It's a nice idea in a way I suppose but it really sits with me wrong and I don't think it's entirely sour grapes (or maybe it is, entirely). I think, and I dunno why this is, I've less of an issue with crowdfunding for something like an exhibition, a festival, or other arts events but crowdfunding a CD. My last cd cost me precisely €700 in total to record and press. When I was in fulltime employment €700 was a paltry sum for me, which I promptly made back, gigging and selling my cd to people who'd either listened to a stream of it or enjoyed the live show. I mean it's your money to spend, fair play to ye, and best of luck to all those who get money out of people for their projects but it seems an odd way of operating, and if not actual begging seems to appeal to a similar impulse that panhandling, charity fundraising etc. do rather than actual industry.

Saying that, if anyone wants to paypal me money to help me record my next release you can send it to [email protected] I'll give a prominent thank you in the inlay, and you'll receive my gratitude and a free handwritten thank you letter.

Firstly €700 does not reflect the price to produce a record for most bands. Secondly very few make money from gigs.

There's a problem though in that there are very real reasons why a project might be delayed, if not indefinitely, but by many months, for non-heinous reasons. At what point after the original delivery date do you take back the money? How is the money delivered to the fundee, would it even be possible to get the money out of them without taking them to the small claims court?

I didn't say they would have the money taken away, I said that once the fundit account starts to be a profitable venture without there being an product, produced the money should go elsewhere. Basically you should not be able to live off fundit.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

Firstly €700 does not reflect the price to produce a record for most bands. Secondly very few make money from gigs.

Yeah but that was me on my own, bands typically have more members, every band of course is different, but many acts would have better means than me, was just an example. I could have afforded to drop more money on it, although I was realistic about how many copies of the album I could sell and how much I could sell it for and wanted this to be a break even proposition. With regard to your second point, I meant by gigging I sold my record. I don't typically make money off playing a gig, although it happens occasionally.

 

[parx]

Thanks pete. I am a bit surprised to the negative reaction to fundit here to be honest. while I understand that you could do an album for 700 euro scientician, my point is that this sort of funding programme means bands can maybe try something a bit more ambitious. As a musician, playing in Ireland. I want to see Irish artists raising the bar in how their music sounds, and how it is packaged and designed. The extra level of funding that fundit can provide can allow bands to use a better studio, a better mixer, a better mastering company, a better sleeve designer etc to create something truly significant. Plus, i would never fund something just because "they're mates". If I was interested in a particular project, I would gladly fund it...If i had the money.
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[Scientician 0.8]

I didn't say they would have the money taken away, I said that once the fundit account starts to be a profitable venture without there being an product, produced the money should go elsewhere. Basically you should not be able to live off fundit.

I still don't understand, sorry.

 

[ann post]

Play gigs,enough people show up because you are decent/have something of a fan base,get paid,save it up.

Is this in narnia or the emerald city? my last tour was two dates to two decent crowds with cd sales on top, after transport and accommodation it only cost me roughly 100 quid to do (stayed with mates one night out of the two), and the promoters were quite generous based on the amount of travel we were doing. I think if you base all the assumptions of how a band should behave on the proximity to large population areas then you wont see the whole picture. Also, the point about ego in relation to money makes no stand to me whatsoever. As far as i'm concerned if i imagine something and decide to do it, then do it and if it falls outside my personal budget then you have effectively put a price on the amount of imagination a person should have. that is ego/vanity and something weirder again that i dont have the word for.

How it looks from my present day point of view is that if i finish what i'm doing at present on my own, it wont be anything near what i intended it to be and i wont even want to try to charge for it. But if there is a willing community who would like to experience the thing fully as it was intended to be then its mutually beneficial in a positive way.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

In fairness it's mainly only me being negative about it and even then I'd say I'm more ambivalent about it than anything.

 

[parx]

Well if you promise a product in return for cash that's not patronage that's capitalism.

I have to disagree with that. People do not donate purely to receive a copy of the album. They donate to these projects, because they have an affinity for a certain artist or musician and want to help them realise their vision.