Juno
Well-Known Member
I'm really uncomfortable with this sort of mentality for a number of reasons - mostly because it's one used, for example, against loud gay rights activists, and that in fact making a distinction of "gay rights" at all from human rights is actually just adding to the problem. I could explain the issues with this but I'm hoping people at least why that sort of invisibility doesn't really help that cause at all.
While I vaguely see where you're coming from, I don't agree. I also object to your assumption of any sort of 'mentality' on my part just because I would rather be in a band than a 'girl band'. I know all too well why that term was used but I feel like we have passed the point where embracing this is positive or useful. Being a musician requires a huge amount of investment in terms of time and money, and often (usually?) this is done for the love of music, rather than a desire to be political. What you are essentially asking people to do is to assume a political position ("I'm in a girl band" "I'm a gay actor/footballer/rugby player" etc) when they might not wish to be defined by their gender or sexuality, but rather by their ability. This is of course very different for a woman in a band than for someone who is gay as one can usually tell a person's gender by looking, but not their sexuality. For that reason and many more I feel your analogy does not hold. Gay rights and the lack of women in rock music are very different issues requiring very different approaches. Nobody (again, in Ireland) is persecuted for being a woman at a rock gig. You may have a few comments from arseholes but that's hardly life-threatening. Therefore I can work against sexism by trying to be a competent musician and songwriter, who is proud to be female, but who does not wish to be solely defined by that. You may not be happy with this but you cannot force people to take a position if they do not wish to. What you see as encouraging invisibility, I see as encouraging normalcy.
For the same reasons I don't think that increased female invisibility(me not going through with this) would help anything.
If you think that doing this night would be helpful then do it! You don't need the permission of thumped, nor the agreement of me or anyone else. If you are regularly attending gigs in your area then surely you will meet or will have met at least one female musician. If you don't know any others, maybe ask her who she knows. Most of us tend to know (or at least know of) each other.
I don't see having workshops that are specifically "girl friendly" would help an awful lot - maybe in the long term, but how do you even go about that? If I advertise such a thing as "female friendly" would you be angry at me for still bothering to distinct females at all instead of acting like there's no issue "officially"? If I didn't, how would women know beforehand it was female friendly? To me, that sort of comes across as more patronising than what I'm proposing.
Well again we must disagree. As for how this could be done? See Girl Rock Camp's post. I used to think much like you did. I played Ladyfest Dublin and I thought that the girls who organised it (all feminists although far more fabulous than frumpy) did an amazing job. It was great seeing so many women both onstage and off but I now think that the solution to this issue needs to be something further reaching. At a gig like this your audience is probably going to be people in their 20s and 30s who, if they were going to be in bands, would already have done so. Now maybe a few people will find new band members or get gigs and if so, then brilliant. However, most people I know in bands started playing in their teens. This is the time when encouragement and support might really make a difference. Maybe an all-ages gig would be beneficial? Not suggesting you do one btw, it's just a thought.
, or a couple of ex-"girl band" types who are perhaps misplacing the source of their issues, doesn't mean there isn't still a potentially huge positive effect.
Well miaow! I can assure you I am very well aware of the source of any issues I might have. Look, I'm not trying to attack you, nor am I 'angry' at you. I just happened to disagree with you. There's a difference. I spent over ten years in bands. My perspective is going to be very different to yours. If you want to put on a night, just do it! I hope it goes well for you.