even i don't find this funny..... (1 Viewer)

[nlgbbbblth]

.
None of the four men were psychopaths either

I'd agree with that; I would guess that none of them went out that night with the intention of harming anyone.

It's not as if they prowled the streets looking to randomly attack innocent people -

that doesn't excuse what they did btw

And on balance I would still feel safer walking past a group of deck-shoed, rugby-shirted, jumped-up South County Dublin blokes than I would a bunch of shellsuit-clad, moustached, Dutch Gold-swilling, "bleedin-story, bud/you lookin' at my mot" skangers [Celtic tops optional]

Any street hassle I've ever gotten has been from the latter

 

[ElderLemon]

And on balance I would still feel safer walking past a group of deck-shoed, rugby-shirted, jumped-up South County Dublin blokes than I would a bunch of shellsuit-clad, moustached, Dutch Gold-swilling, "bleedin-story, bud/you lookin' at my mot" skangers [Celtic tops optional]

Any street hassle I've ever gotten has been from the latter

Would not agree. I got the crap beaten out of me when I was taken from behind (physically not sexually) by a pissed-up rugger bugger in a case of mistaken identity - and not unlike the B.Murphy case even when he had me on the ropes (3 hard punches in the back of the head and me pissed as a flute) he proceeded to grab me by the hair and whack my head against the bar just for the fun of it. The bouncers got to him just in time as I had passed out and he was still banging my head on the bar.

In another incident, I was busking in Cork and this bunch of pissed-up ruggers buggers came up and started pushing me around. Now I'm not a small guy but these guys (4) were all the same size as me (or bigger). They were trying to grab my guitar, yelling in my face, asking me "if I wanted to die" etc. I just avoided eye contact, didn't answer back, and kept playing. Eventually they got bored and fucked off. What wankers. The funny was that there was this wee guy - all five and a half foot of him - standing beside me, and he started remonstrating with these well-got thugs to leave me alone. They just looked at him, and probably decided there was no "pride" in beating up someone so small. Thankfully. (I told the small guy afterwards that he was very brave but very stupid)

Anyway the point being give me skangers anyday - unless they're doing drugs (and that's another story...)

 

[Goodbye]

still... a pretty guy like dermo is going to be grand in there all the same...
and sher, if he gets out early for good behaviour, the eurovision is as good as ours...

 

[Anthony]

The joy for those pricks!

 

[Jimmy Magee]

Hmm...I dunno...should a shitty background not count as a mitigating factor to some extent? Frequent exposure to violence and the like? Does a priviledged upbringing not bring greater responsibility and so on? Let's bring this on.

 

[the bearded lady]

they ALL admitted punching yer man at least a few times. if you admit to punching a bloke that then dies from a beating, in my mind you're guilty of manslaughter. if you and your buddies shot some bloke, and he died of gunshot wounds, would you not be then guilty of at least manslaughter?

the class thing DOES come into it. it can safely be presumed that the scangers in the opposite court had court appointed representation while the cunts from Club Mammy'sboy had access to daddy's money and the best Solicitors you can get, no? therefore it DOES come into it cos the first thing i thought when i first read about it was that they'd pay their way out of that situation. and they did. i think the reason the media was so excited about the case was cos they wanted to see if that happened aswell, hence so much emphasis on class and what school they went to etc.

one last thing, on the RTE news the night the last of these cunts got off with manslaughter (did you notice it was only the bogger out of the four who "went down" - he'd want to get used to that where he's going) they went out and interviewed a load of complete CUNTS outside club anabels and asked them why there was fighting all the time. i'm not even going to get into the accents and ohmigod's here, but the main reason was "rival PRIVATE schools". so there again, class does come into it. one total PRICK even said "yah, a lot of d'foights er aboish rogby and private schools AND OH WE'RE RICHER THAN YOU and daitsh koind uf ting".


they should ALL be kicked to death in my book.

 

[Ex-User (250)]

i doubt they meant to kill the guy, they were just being unbelieveably stupid and i'd say they really regret it now (no shit). they're already going to be paying for it for the rest of their lives... i mean no one is going to forget them now. i reckon they were just acting real tough like... i know the type... i work with some people from background like theirs and it's so obvious they're total cunts outside of work... most have never experienced any sort of hardship, everything has always come easy... and perhaps, as some sort of rebellion, they try to make themselves ultra hard or posh scumbags (fake working class). seriously, i've played rugby against pricks like these, their brains operate on an extremely basic premise... there is absolutely no need whatsoever for someone who goes to blackrock to be hard as nails, there just isn't. sending them to the joy now would be a mistake i think... they will get the crap knocked out of them every single day they're there and will leave extremely bitter. they were relatively young when all this happened... it's not that i have sympathy for them, i mean, if i'd seen it actually happening, i would have tried to kick the fuck out of them probably but... i just think condemning them to 20 years of prison or whatever now would do absolutely no good to anyone.

[edit] just read BL's post above.
Of course class has something to do with it, it's always going to. but by your logic beardo, the only reason these guys should be kicked to death above say skangers from rathfarnham (ahem) is because they happened to be born into a relatively well-off background? i mean, the same mentality exists on both sides of the fence, knackers from the 'farnham are just as likely to kick someone to death as these guys... people with posh accents are just as hard to understand as people with really heavy inner-city accents... and i doubt if you were in the same situation, if you were up for man slaughter and you came from a rich background that you'd insist on having state-appointed lawyers instead of using the defense daddy's money afforded you?

p.s. i went to templeogue, good mix of posh and knack, non-fee paying. played rugby. sang in the choir. sniffed petrol. all the usual stuff.

 

[Anthony]

I saw that news report. Looked like the crowd at a Joan Of Arse gig (har har). Seriously ab-so-lute pricks every one of them. "we're richer than you" what P R I C K S!! I did note that the only one that got done proper was the bogger. Terrible.

 

[the bearded lady]

you played rugby? you fucking PRICK. YOU should be taking it up the rusty hose in the joy for that!!!!

fuck them. i never kicked anyone to death in me teens, that makes me SUPERIOR to the likes of them. don't you know what a high-horse is hag?

check out mine......................

 

[the bearded lady]

I saw that news report. Looked like the crowd at a Joan Of Arse gig (har har). Seriously ab-so-lute pricks every one of them. "we're richer than you" what P R I C K S!! I did note that the only one that got done proper was the bogger. Terrible.

fuck him. he was guilty of something, all them slurried-cunts are. you should know. get your sister out from under ye, ye prick.

 

[Latex lizzie]

..just one point there(just being fair is all) I agree with what yiz have said,,but all but one of them went for free legal aid..so the best lawyers thing doesn't come into it.THe guy who did pay for his lawyer now faces a 230,000 bill.

 

[the bearded lady]

..just one point there(just being fair is all) I agree with what yiz have said,,but all but one of them went for free legal aid..so the best lawyers thing doesn't come into it.THe guy who did pay for his lawyer now faces a 230,000 bill.

well then....for that i'm going to log off.
here, how jew know that shit? you the one-that-got-away?

well, one of the three..

 

[jane]

I'd agree with that; I would guess that none of them went out that night with the intention of harming anyone.

It's not as if they prowled the streets looking to randomly attack innocent people -

that doesn't excuse what they did btw

And on balance I would still feel safer walking past a group of deck-shoed, rugby-shirted, jumped-up South County Dublin blokes than I would a bunch of shellsuit-clad, moustached, Dutch Gold-swilling, "bleedin-story, bud/you lookin' at my mot" skangers [Celtic tops optional]

Any street hassle I've ever gotten has been from the latter

Try being a girl. And a blonde. And smaller than the average teenager.

I guess I should not have made such light of the whole issue of 'class', but I think there is some truth to it. The reality is that these kids will get off more lightly because they come from familiies who can afford good legal counsel for them. And the victim was of a similar class. Not only might one suggest that there would be less media attention if the killers were from a less leafy suburb, but if the victim had been from a less-desirable area, there might be even less uproar. If the victim had been a rich kid and the killers working-class, well, they'd all go away forever, and everyone would be shouting for blood. Whether we want to argue that the crime itself had anything to do with class, that the perception of it has become entirely so makes it impossible to ignore.

But I think there is an a lack of accountability among kids from some of these schools. I don't want to make a sweeping generalisation about everyone who comes from there (considering there's at least one youngfella on here that went to Blackrock and came out a lovely lad), but there is an attitude of infallibility that some of the more celebrated students are allowed to maintain about themselves. If you spend six years telling a kid he can do no wrong, then how can you be surprised when he does something without considering the consequences?

Personally, I have had negative experiences with all sorts of pricks, not limited to class. I've had some less-monied sorts try to throw me into a river (among other things), but I've also had my ass/boobs/face/etc grabbed by rugger bugger types who consider all they survey their own. the experiences I've had with the more privileged sort have been more vicious and far more protracted than the isolated incidents of random violence/threats from others. I went to a public school in the US, which was pretty much a constant battle on a daily basis. Being very small and standing out like a punk rock thumb, I was lucky enough to see kids from some of the wealthiest families in the state take advantage of their position as often as they could. Not one was ever held accountable. Why? Because they played sports. They came from 'good' families. They were going to Harvard and Yale. So obviously, if they acted out, it was because they were provoked and had no other choice.

Those kids probably didn't go out to Anabels looking to kill someone, or even looking for a fight, true, but that there is an undercurrent in the attitude of kids 'like these' (whatever that means) that suggests consequences don't apply to them. I'm sure they feel terrible, and I'm sure it is not just limited to guilt over destroying their own futures: I'm sure they feel awful about what they did. Or, at least I hope so. I don't think they were necessarily 'psycho', and I'm sure they are nice to their mammies and kiss gran's face without wincing, but it doesn't mean they understand accountability in the broader sense. How could they otherwise not realise that when a group of people attack one person, there is a risk they might kill that person? That just not 'meaning' to do it can't prevent it from happening?

Maybe my response is a little too personal, and maybe I am presenting a totally over-simplified view, but the school they went to and the way they might have been treated there may be totally relevant, especially if their experiences there still remained such a strong part of their social identities. I don't know the story behind that, so I can't really make a judgement, but still, this is the internet: it was made for unsupported statements to be tossed around.

Yes, the media circus is ridiculous, but what do we expect? People are feigning surprise that even 'good' kids can do things like kick people to death. Aren't only poor people supposed to go a bit mad like that?

 

[Shnake]

well I'd be the first one to say lock them up and throw away the key, but I'd also say that when it comes to the law class, area, background shouldn't come into it. Judging a person on their rich background is just as bad as judging them on their poor background. What is this, the USA? Last time I looked the law was blind to these issues and if we consider people of all kinds to be equal then that goes for rich kids too, because for every person who says throw away the key there's a bleeding heart who says give them mercy, consider the pressure of all that wealth - and that's not a joke, a guy I know actually said that yesterday in not so many words, that they "should have been more lenient, they didn't mean it, they're not Tallaght skangers, like". The law should be blind to these things.

 

[Latex lizzie]

..I think we should all watch dead poets and it will help us to understand more.

 

[egg_]

IMHO very few people realise how easy it is to kill someone. Most of the violence most people see is on television, where people not only survive the most horrific beatings, but get up 5 minutes later and go about their business ... if you get knocked out, someone throws a bucket of water on you and you come around, no worries about concussion or brain damage or anything. A miracle!
You can kill a guy with one punch if you knock him down and he hits his head. If all the punches and kicks that were thrown in Dublin on a Saturday night actually connected there'd be a lot more people dead

 

[jane]

IMHO very few people realise how easy it is to kill someone. Most of the violence most people see is on television, where people not only survive the most horrific beatings, but get up 5 minutes later and go about their business ... if you get knocked out, someone throws a bucket of water on you and you come around, no worries about concussion or brain damage or anything. A miracle!
You can kill a guy with one punch if you knock him down and he hits his head. If all the punches and kicks that were thrown in Dublin on a Saturday night actually connected there'd be a lot more people dead

This is true, and not just limited to your opinion.

The fact is that although we would like to think that the law is blind to class and background, the reality of the way that the legal system operates, and the people who operate it would suggest otherwise. And the media doesn't help. Class matters. On paper, it's not supposed to, but it certainly does. And always has.

 

[billygannon]

Would the tragedy have been avoided if Dermot Laide wasn't wearing these?

Have Al-Qaeda been linked to this?
Will there be pre-emptive action taken against Blackrock College?

Who's Bad?

 

[Latex lizzie]

Would the tragedy have been avoided if Dermot Laide wasn't wearing these?

Have Al-Qaeda been linked to this?
Will there be pre-emptive action taken against Blackrock College?

Who's Bad?

ur..doing andys bit while hes away then?

 

[minka]

But I think there is an a lack of accountability among kids from some of these schools. I don't want to make a sweeping generalisation about everyone who comes from there (considering there's at least one youngfella on here that went to Blackrock and came out a lovely lad), but there is an attitude of infallibility that some of the more celebrated students are allowed to maintain about themselves. If you spend six years telling a kid he can do no wrong, then how can you be surprised when he does something without considering the consequences?

you've got a point there. i used to share a flat with a guy who had a lot of friends like this and some of them frankly scared the bejesus out of me. a frightening combination of "i can do no wrong" and "daddy will pay for it". just as an example, flatmate had a party shortly before he moved out on a night i wasn't going to be in. so i stuck all my breakables (so i thought) into my room, locked the door lest i come home and find copulating strangers in my bed, etc. i got home and the one thing that belonged to me that i hadn't left in my room - a bookcase - was broken, and someone had spilled beer on the books. the reaction to my ire: "oh relax, i mean, it's a party". yes, a party. well-known legitimate occasion to break other people's stuff. no apologies whatsoever. fuckers.