diy (3 Viewers)

[Phil]

 

[taubstumm]

on the other thread, niall said:

the merit of the music/art being produced can come from the ethical values of the band which is what i think basta are trying to promote

which raises another few questions...

like, should 'd.i.y.' people only work with others whom they feel have an affinity with their 'ethical stance'? or, what should be avoided, and why? what should be embraced, and why? does 'd.i.y.' ever become 'ethically limiting' (to coin a phrase) due to over-zealous focusing on particular 'd.i.y.' principles?

 

[oh shit]

on the other thread, niall said:



which raises another few questions...

like, should 'd.i.y.' people only work with others whom they feel have an affinity with their 'ethical stance'? or, what should be avoided, and why? what should be embraced, and why? does 'd.i.y.' ever become 'ethically limiting' (to coin a phrase) due to over-zealous focusing on particular 'd.i.y.' principles?

it's up to individuals to decide who or what they want to put into it and take from it. some would have a problem working with bands who ask for guarantees, or bands who are looking for profit from the shows; others might not have that problem.
you're asking about rules when the point is that there are no rules, it's whatever people make of it - doing it themselves, it's theoretically as individual as they are.

people 'should' do whatever they're comfortable with.

 

[Corm]

Some interesting questions...should DIY prioritise ethical values over artistic merit...yes and no, I think.

There is an inherent ethical value in DIY that is anti-consumer, anti-product, anti-mainstream. So, if you take that "against-ness" as a given, that's one step on the ladder of ethical values over aristic merit.

Then there's the fact that the DIY scene is something of a "safe" space for freaks, weirdos and fruits of all varieties, so if you have someone whose ethical values promote homophobia or racism or patriarchy (whether explicitly or covertly) or other ideas which hold others down, than I think it's necessary to speak out against them, but I don't necessarily think it excludes them from DIY. Exclusion is equivalent to sticking your fingers in your ears and going LA LA La LA LA LA!!! really loudly... These kinds of issues need to be constantly thought about and reappraised, so it doesn't hurt for them to be brought up. But since most in the DIY scene hold tolerant values with the basic premise of equality and freedom for all, then a group or individuals who espouse "negative" values will quickly find that nobody wants to put on their gig, put their record out, or whatever.

Which is why DIY is DIY -because it's made up of individuals who are very much into ideas of self-determination rather than following the flow of the crowd (this is where people start showing how cool they are by talking about the lack of individuality in the punk scene because all crusties look the same or whatever, I'm talking about real individualism, on the inside), who are free to make their own decisions about something solely to do with that thing´s intrinsic overall value -not because it will sell.

So, someone who is into DIY but is at odds with the value-consensus of the scene is then free to Do It Themselves. Which is the inherent strenght and basic premise of DIY -if somebody doesn't like your shit and doesn't want to do it FOR you, then fucking Do It Yourself.

And this happens -one example is the band UNIT from the UK, who have totally fucked views, or Barse 77, who are total dickheads. These people receive criticism from many in the punk scene, but I've still read lots of interviews, reviews, opinion pieces etc with and about them in which there is a dialogue going on.

So I think the censorship of ethical values over artistic merit is not something that happens or is necessary -if you give these people with whose ethics you don't agree a forum to speak their views, they'll usually make themselves look even more stupid than you could ever possibly portray them as on your own.

 

[Willie Willions]

DIY means doing a shit job on something and everyone still saying its great.

Oh I wish I could give myself punk-points.

 

[Corm]

NO NO NO!! That's Bad DIY. Good DIY is giving away rolling papers with your LP, YEEEEAH!!! Bad DIY is when the coloured vinyl doesn't work.

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

Bad DIY is when the coloured vinyl doesn't work.

Mine worked,maybe it was the stereo.

 

[Corm]

Yeah! Good, that's what I've been telling loads of people, mine worked too. And it's not bad DIY really, it was the pressing plant's fault, but personally I would have rejected the test pressing if it had been my decision.

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

mine worked too

andrew

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

personally I would have rejected the test pressing if it had been my decision.

I don't think there was tests done.

 

[mac warzonescum]

Phillip K, Dick was a complete and utter junky,

A heavy drug user during certain periods of his life, yes, but a heroin user, which the term 'junky' suggests to me, no.

 

[Cormcolash]

He was a bit of a dick though.

 

[nooleen]

He was a bit of a dick though.

i don't know if you deserve punk points given or taken away for that one.

 

[Corm]

I don't think there was tests done.

Big surprise...

NOT

 

[Cormcolash]

i don't know if you deserve punk points given or taken away for that one.

Haha I know, I am immensely proud of how utterly shit that joke was! Personally, I'd be giving points for it!

 

[oh shit]

Tom, i forgot about this. have a read...
http://www.ebullition.com/censorship.html

some points made by kent (ebullition):

While Ravi (author of an article criticising DIY scene) and I might share many views on the state of politics both globally and locally, ultimately we have extremely different ideologies concerning hardcore. He wants to use hardcore to spread messages to the mainstream, and I want to remain underground. I do not believe that hardcore can change the world, and quite frankly I am not interested in using it to recruit new folks for leftist causes. I view hardcore as a retreat; something best left outside of the mainstream's understanding. And I know for a fact that lots of people in hardcore have their own problems. I prefer to use hardcore to change our lives. So it isn't about preaching to the converted, but rather about trying to make a scene that is controlled by us, about us, and for us.

what Crass (and many other bands and people) set in motion has made a huge difference. The fact that there are literally thousands of underground bands, 'zines, and an entire network of independent venues, distros, and labels shows just how amazingly successful the whole process has been... If we don't create alternatives then the entire world will be reduced to a few multi-national corporations. The fact that the number of major labels has shrunk merely means that we need to constantly be on guard.

We don't have to be perfect. If "perfect" means good, and "less than perfect" means bad then everyone will be bad. We do indeed occasionally review books that are released by corporations because we have decided that sometimes we can bend our own rules if it means bringing some content to the hardcore community. These are our 'zines, and we can do what we want. And just because we aren't perfect doesn't invalidate our beliefs.

Generally businesses look at sales versus prices on a curve. The highest point of the curve is the most profitable. At this point prices are as high as they can be without losing customers. If they raise the prices too high then they lose too many customers, so they set their prices at the point just before they start to get diminishing returns. The DIY idea is very different. In this instance the idea is to get the maximum number of "customers" without taking a loss. If your goal is to make money then Ravi's ideas are pretty good, but if your goal is to promote a scene where the maximum number of bands and 'zines can exist then Ravi's ideas are pretty bad.

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

Big surprise...

NOT

with records of such a small run this is really no surprise.

 

[oh shit]

with records of such a small run this is really no surprise.

yeah, pretty much every small label that friends of mine run don't bother with them, as long as you send a properly mastered master (hm) and get all your forms filled out right there shouldn't be any problem.

 

[D0njo]

well, some records worked and some didn't, so something weird happened..
i don't think i'ved even got one and eoin sold his for crack.