diy (3 Viewers)

[W.]

"selective shows"

heheh, points finger..

 

[windings]

"selective shows"

heheh, points finger..

point away...

 

[Rimbaud]

blah blah...i jsut wrote about bands going for the financail gain/suckcess/big time.I got carried away/angry....which is`nt very constructive so . *edit post* for me.

 

[taubstumm]

should d.i.y. prioritise ethical values over artistic merit?

 

[Napalm]

should d.i.y. prioritise ethical values over artistic merit?

always and forever .|..|

 

[W.]

should d.i.y. prioritise ethical values over artistic merit?

is there any merit to art that doesn't ?

 

[sarah]

is there any merit to art that doesn't ?

Lewis Carroll was a Paedo,

Phillip K, Dick was a complete and utter junky, as was billy holiday.

I'm sure there are plenty of musicians whose political views,
and views on race are less than palatable (can't think of examples
right now) that would produce amazing works.

When you're getting into this territory you have to clearly define
ethics and which ethics you care about.

Leonardo De Vinci was mad into the little boys but then again it was the
style of the time.

See this is what confuses me ... where do you draw the line?

 

[mc moley]

i quess wherever you feel comfortable at drawing it personaly. others will obviously have their own level of tolerence/acceptance of things. which leads to people banging head sometimes i guess.

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

I'm sure there are plenty of musicians whose political views,
and views on race are less than palatable (can't think of examples
right now) that would produce amazing works.

johnny ramone

andrew

 

[sarah]

johnny ramone

andrew

still have to go see that movie, is it still in the cinema?

 

[Wavioli]

shabba ranks is a notorious homaphobe

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

yeah and shabba ranks is the *only* jamaican musician to hold this view!!!
fela was mad into female circumscision, having loads of aids and a million wives
the director of jeepers creepers 1+2/powder filmed himself getting a blowjob from a 12 year old boy and went to gaol
'off the wall' and 'thriller' are deadly but what's up with that guy?

cut+paste from pop bitch:
>> With friends like these... <<
The trial of the century gets better

So Michael Jackson is languishing in hospital,
instead of facing jury selection in court.
Let's take a look at the chamber of horrors
he's lined up to defend him. We're still
hoping to be called as character witnesses...

Liz Taylor - alcoholic/painkiller addiction
Diana Ross - drink driving conviction
Stevie Wonder - what's he going to say -
"I didn't see anything?"
Kobe Bryant - accused of rape
Nick Carter - suspected of beating up
his ex, Paris Hilton
Barry Gibb - known as "Pilly" in Bee Gees days.
Uri Geller - Spoon bender
Chris Tucker - the man that cancer boy accuser
Gavin really wanted to meet through the
Make A Wish Foundation but got Jacko instead.

andrew

 

[stephenoblunt]

I like a good few Rancid songs, but I wouldn't play a gig with them. Already had to tell them to fuck off when they asked to play Kilcoole this Summer.

 

[sarah]

I like a good few Rancid songs, but I wouldn't play a gig with them. Already had to tell them to fuck off when they asked to play Kilcoole this Summer.

Why what 'did' Rancid do- or do they do?



Where is kilcoole? I thought it was just a made-y up place.

 

[stephenoblunt]

I think they became quite pathetic... Hanging out with the Osbourne girl for publicity, Tim Armstrong (singer) writing songs for Pink (is that true?), Tim Armstrong putting a song in that Shampoo ad, Reports from their gig in the Olympia sounded quite sad, although I can't remember why (it adds to the feeling of "yeuch" when I think of them though), basically went with something they had preached against at gigs up till then - "fuck major labels!" I don't like how the big labels work things, I think it exploits music and a band that apparently knew better, but went with it, is something that makes me think "whatever..." about a band.

It doesn't make their music sound worse though.

 

[stephenoblunt]

Kilcoole is drizzle central and it never snows there.

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

It doesn't make their music sound worse though.

they could exterminate 7 million jews and i don't think their music could sound any worse

andrew

 

[nooleen]

should d.i.y. prioritise ethical values over artistic merit?

is there any merit to art that doesn't ?

i don't believe it: "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to weeler again."

 

[nooleen]

Lewis Carroll was a Paedo,

Phillip K, Dick was a complete and utter junky, as was billy holiday.

I'm sure there are plenty of musicians whose political views,
and views on race are less than palatable (can't think of examples
right now) that would produce amazing works.

When you're getting into this territory you have to clearly define
ethics and which ethics you care about.

Leonardo De Vinci was mad into the little boys but then again it was the
style of the time.

See this is what confuses me ... where do you draw the line?

the ethics in question when you're talking about DIY are ethics with regard to how and why the art/music/whatever is made, not personal ethics re: little boys etc.

 

[oh shit]

the ethics in question when you're talking about DIY are ethics with regard to how and why the art/music/whatever is made, not personal ethics re: little boys etc.

i don't think it's a helpful comparison to talk about authors, especially ones writing long before the commercialisation of mass culture.

the hypothetical 'successful artist':
is inspired
produces artefact
is appreciated by peers, critics, a certain portion of the public
artefact increases in value, artist is successful.

DIY is a reaction against popular culture, not haute culture (tho it is often implicitly against the intellectualisation of culture above common understanding).

It is not helpful to attempt to define it, as one can then be tripped up by people like your man Blast! it out his ass.

But look at the context: punk rock is maybe not the best word because a lot of influential punk/proto-punk bands (the stooges, the ramones, the sex pistols, gang of four, the clash) were on major labels. hardcore is better. the hardcore scene in the states was created by groups of friends who hated the mainstream culture but loved punk rock realising that they didn't need to be signed up by a company or approved by critics to be validated.

they did their own shows in spaces they found themselves, pressed up their own records, and tried to make it open to anyone who wanted to take part (all ages, all places, call the SST hotline to have Black Flag play in your town! etc).

the american 'indie' scene was more or less born out of this idea, as more people became involved the scenes grew up around the US, bands toured, labels grew, different styles of music developed, and around 1990 the major labels copped on and signed up everyone in seattle. thanks, kurt.

but DIY survived, cos it has to. some people will always feel alienated by pop culture, and some of those people will team up and start doing their own thing, making their own space artistically, physically, intellectually... that's really cheesy sounding but it's true. it's a space where you define yourself... admittedly there is a lot of tribalism within hardcore 'scenes' (hence my occasionally OTT reactions to PC-ness) but the actual concept of DIY can apply even outside that.

anyway, another reason i'm not into the traditional dicotomy is that it seems to be breaking down, mainly with the reach of the internet. example, connor oberst of the horrible Bright Eyes - he has said he will not sign up with a major label but stay on his own indie label Saddle Creek. not because he feels it's important to retain his independence and "integrity", but because it just wouldnt make economic sense to him right now to go major. he'll still market himself like a product though. is he DIY? is he fuck.

on the other hand it seems more and more possible for bands and labels to be independent but reach a much larger audience. fugazi/shellac is always the typical example but i dunno if they're a good one given the members past in seminal bands like minor threat, big black etc.
more interesting is bands like the futureheads who are on a small label but, as they grew in popularity, delegated roles to outside companies. they're far from DIY but they are (so far) retaining their artistic integrity while climbing the pop charts. of course they aren't really able to go play floor shows if they feel like it and do have to jump through certain media hoops, but they are intellectually honest which is a nice change from the stereotypical 'alternative' music piped out of the crap-hole...

i could go on and talk about Q and Not U in a similar vein but wont, if anyone's still reading, cheers. i had to write this out twice cos my computer is shit.