Des Bishop (2 Viewers)

[keithaburke]

It's a lot easier for people who were born into comfortable circumstances.

Too right

to assume that real minimum wage workers are not aware enough of their situation to articulate it, or even to be witty about it is really kind of unfair.

The world is unfair... that's why some people work min wage jobs... are more productive and paid less than other peole.
I just wanted to say that you'd have a difficult time trying to find the kind of person you speak of. I could be wrong.

Obviously, if the show centres on sending a middle class kid into a minimum wage job, there's one angle there, so why not add a few more? Who's to say the Chinese don't speak English? Or that people who work in Abrekebabra aren't worth filming?

I think you need another few shows Jane...

I think he did manage to get some of his points across. Sweeping up uneaten food that cost more than he makes in an hour was pretty poignant.

I liked the part where he challenged those lads to pick up their trays and put them in the rubbish.

"they're paid to do it"

You don't know how many times I've heard that. Rubbish! The amount of money they're paid wouldn't convince me to even look at the mess left behind in some places.

I think I've been doing it up to now... but definately from now on I'll put my own tray in the bin.

The poor gooks shouldn't have to do it...

just kidding..

Keith

 

[Rimbaud]

well i was watching "i'm a celebrity..." so i didn't watch it
i think des bishop is a painfully bad comedian and i doubt i'd watch his show ever
but you guys are right tv is sooooooo stupid
andrew

Hey, i`m surprised you get to watch any tv at all Andy!!What with the internet surfing and all...

 

[Rimbaud]

The poor gooks shouldn't have to do it...

Keith

Explain?

 

[SONYMEGADRIVE]

Hey, i`m surprised you get to watch any tv at all Andy!!What with the internet surfing and all...

i haven't left the house in weeks

andrew

 

[jane]

it seems to me that the only reason someone would work in a takeaway is for the cash and not because the "don't wanna do anything better"...d'ya reckon some people just settle for shit jobs cause they don't reckon they could find anything better?

sending 'upper class' people to work in a min wage job situation would just be like that paris hilton tv show, no?

and do ya reckon that its easier in this country for people to go on the dole instead of having to work a shit job? i do. then again i think the irish are a lazy nation. is it immoral to be on the dole while yr trying to find yr feet/find something to work at that yr suited to? as an american you probably have a much better 'work ethic' because as you said there's no safety net over there (which is both criminal and also keeps the kapitalist machine well oiled eh? - oops! there i go off on a bill hicksian diatribe again )

p.s. is your boss a junkie?

My point is that minimum wage jobs, when it's not something you do on a fairly temporary basis, can sometimes make people feel like they're stuck in a rut they won't ever get out of, and when there's no safety net, you're probably less likely to get out of the cycle.

I wouldn't condemn someone for being on the dole while they tried to find their feet. That's one of the good things about a country that has a dole system. A safety net is a GOOD thing. Not only is there no dole in the US, the poverty line is so abysmally low that it just keeps people in the rut even more. In order to get benefits, you have to be below it, and while there are thousands of dollars separating the official poverty line and what could be considered a living wage, to raise the poverty line means acknowledging how many people in the country are genuinely poor.

I don't know about making generalisations about 'work ethic', but I think you're right, to a point. I mean, when I was in shit jobs, it was the early 1990s, when the economy was in recession, and you just took what you could. You weren't late, you didn't call in sick, and you didn't complain about anything. The work ethic is pretty much forced on you out of fear and financial insecurity, and isn't necessarily a positive thing.

I wouldn't refer to an entire nation as 'lazy'. In fact, I think people get a little more leeway here than they do in the States. When I was working a few years ago in Cork, I couldn't believe we got a coffee break AND a lunch break. Amazing. If treating people like something resembling human beings instead of a cog in a machine makes them 'lazy', then so be it. Better to keep a little bit of your dignity than have it squashed by a shitty job.

I worked for a crazy junkie like 12 years ago. He owned a chain of shops and we were pretty sure that some of the 'shipments' we would get at our branch were not filled with the kind of merchandise we were selling. We'd get these phone calls from the warehouse telling us which boxes we were allowed to open, and some guys would come up in a van and whisk away the rest of the stuff.

As for the 'Simple Life', no I don't think it's the same. That takes the piss out of Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie more than it does the locals. Besides, Paris Hilton is my favourite train wreck.

 

[spectraljanitor]

I wouldn't refer to an entire nation as 'lazy'. In fact, I think people get a little more
leeway here than they do in the States.... If treating people like something resembling human beings instead of a cog in a machine makes them 'lazy', then so be it. Better to keep a little bit of your dignity than have it squashed by a shitty job.

i agree totally. i was being a bit flippant with the 'lazy nation' remark i just reckon that maybe people here realise that they are not their jobs, y'know, so they don't give 1000% loyalty to "the company" or whatever. i was workin i a job last year (not in ireland) that involved standing up from 9.30 till 6 with no lunch break...it was kinda squashing alright...only made bearable by the fact that it was a deadly little record shop....

and yeah hilton and richie do end up looking ridiculous. then again thats the privilege of the super-rich eh?

that junkie boss story is hilarious

 

[jane]

i agree totally. i was being a bit flippant with the 'lazy nation' remark i just reckon that maybe people here realise that they are not their jobs, y'know, so they don't give 1000% loyalty to "the company" or whatever. i was workin i a job last year (not in ireland) that involved standing up from 9.30 till 6 with no lunch break...it was kinda squashing alright...only made bearable by the fact that it was a deadly little record shop....

and yeah hilton and richie do end up looking ridiculous. then again thats the privilege of the super-rich eh?

that junkie boss story is hilarious

American companies tend to expect you to cut off your right arm for them if they ask you to, and it's really demoralising. You can't pretend you don't care because they'll sack you for bringing down morale. Now, I can understand that if a high-powered executive doesn't give a crap, it might be a bad idea if they don't even put on a front, but jesus, they expect it from everyone, no matter how low on the ladder you are. An office job I once worked in was like that.

I hadn't realised how ingrained that attitude is in Americans, though, until I was around 21 and I was in Italy. I was talking to some Italians, and, in my very Yank way, asked, 'What do you do?' The guy looked at me funny and asked me what I meant, and then said, 'Well, I work.' It suddenly dawned on me that the raw career-driven ambition that is so often seen in the US as a part of who you should aspire to be was not necessarily how everyone was. So really, I guess it means that low-paying jobs are the worst lot in a place where you are defined by your job. I think Ireland IS going that way, too, which is sad.

The junkie boss used to call up the shop, start asking for people who didn't work there, and this would sometimes spiral out of control until he wasn't sure who HE was. I remember once having to remind him of his own name. It took three tries for him to get it. He was classic. Apparently, he's cleaned himself up now and his business is pretty successful again, but probably a lot less of a funny place to work. Perhaps even more soul-destroying. What was amazing was that the shop burned down one day (arson, yes, but it was another shop in the building who probably started it), and he claimed all of the damaged merchandise on the insurance, then proceeded to try to sell it at the knockdown price of 20% off. When we would get in trouble for not selling enough of it, 'It smells like burning' just didn't fly. Apparently, it was OUR fault that people didn't want to buy lycra tube tops with burn holes in them that still cost 50 bucks. Plus, he made us stand outside in freezing weather to 'guard' the place from looters, and didn't pay us. He also didn't look after us during the three weeks it took to find a temporary premesis.

I also worked for a wannabe mobster once, but that's a story for another day, and also involves both arson and insurance fraud.

Oh, and I prefer Rich Girls to The Simple Life. Watching billionaires' daughters try to send mattresses to Africa so that starving Ethiopians can get a good night's sleep is worth more than any billions of dollars. Paris Hilton is, however, an amazing creature to watch.

 

[Rimbaud]

i haven't left the house in weeks

andrew

I`m on 12 hour shifts - hence being on the internet alot, hence not much time to watch tv.

 

[Rimbaud]

American companies tend to expect you to cut off your right arm for them if they ask you to, and it's really demoralising. You can't pretend you don't care because they'll sack you for bringing down morale.

I know!
I`m in an american company right now - hell they`re probably monitoring this actually..better split.

 

[jane]

I know!
I`m in an american company right now - hell they`re probably monitoring this actually..better split.

Dear Mr Rimbaud (if that is your real name),

It has come to our attention that you have been spending time with a bunch of roustabouts and several (if not more) hooligans on an internet site called 'Thumped'. While this is against company policy, it further concerns us that you have directed your attention toward a 'thread' that deals with working conditions in American organisations.

We wish to remind you that, as a company rooted in the American traditions of freedom, liberty, and justice for all, your lack of team spirit has begun to undermine our mission.

Our Human Resources department works hard to make this company a happy family, and, though we do not plan to terminate you, until you are willing to pull your weight, you will be assigned to the rat-infested garrett of my summer house in the Hamptons to sort my wife's moustache trimmings into exactly cylindrical stacks of equal height, width and weight using nothing but your wits, your will, and your tongue, which will be replaced with the scratchy side of a strip of velcro.

This will begin immediately.

Thank you,

Mr. Moll T. Nashen-Alle
President, CEO, CFO

 

[Rimbaud]

Christ, i better delete that Internet files Cache thingy before the "crowd upstairs" catch onto this thread!
A bit freaked out now - its happened here, believe me.

 

[jane]

Christ, i better delete that Internet files Cache thingy before the "crowd upstairs" catch onto this thread!
A bit freaked out now - its happened here, believe me.

Sorry, now I feel kinda bad. As long as you can delete the cache....eek. I believe you.

 

[nlgbbbblth]

See, I think it would have made it more comical. I mean, these people must have a million stupid stories about working there. I haven't read it, but I've heard that Barbara Ehrenreich's Nickel and Dimed is a well-researched account of going around and trying to live on next to nothing. Having read some of her other stuff, she's so sarcastic and blackly comic that I can't imagine that it's not really funny.

I read Nickel and Dimed on my honeymoon

just bought another book of Ehrenreich's last week - Global Woman
you read it?

 

[jane]

I read Nickel and Dimed on my honeymoon

just bought another book of Ehrenreich's last week - Global Woman
you read it?

I haven't read it. The only things I've read by her are some articles and a book about the Reagan era called The Worst Years of our Lives. A friend of mine gave it to me and said it sounded like something I would write, which I took as a massively (undeserved) compliment.

She's so articulate, intelligent, blackly comic, and so human -- she manages to use the most acute sarcasm to hammer home some really serious things. I'd love to read more of her stuff.

 

[egg_]

I liked Nickel and Dimed - was eye-opening, which I like - but the author tends to talk about herself (this is how I felt, this is what I did) a lot, can get a bit irritating at times ...

 

[jane]

I liked Nickel and Dimed - was eye-opening, which I like - but the author tends to talk about herself (this is how I felt, this is what I did) a lot, can get a bit irritating at times ...

I guess I can't really respond to this since I haven't read it myself, but if the book documents her own experiences, shouldn't she talk about herself? I mean, obviously, she's trying to highlight the conditions of the working poor, but since she would be well aware that she can't speak for them, using the first person is all she can really do. She knew she was going back to her comfortable life, so she can't truly put herself in their shoes and pretend she knows.

Like I said, though, I'm just talking out my hole since I haven't read it. Wouldn't be the first time I used that for talkin'...

 

[egg_]

if the book documents her own experiences, shouldn't she talk about herself?

Heh heh I knew you'd say that
It's not the fact that she was talking about her experiences that irritated me ... hmmm it's hard to put my finger on this ... perhaps it's just that she spelled out her feelings rather than demonstrating them. I dunno, something about her writing just grated at times

 

[jane]

Heh heh I knew you'd say that
It's not the fact that she was talking about her experiences that irritated me ... hmmm it's hard to put my finger on this ... perhaps it's just that she spelled out her feelings rather than demonstrating them. I dunno, something about her writing just grated at times

I think I know what you mean in a general sense.

I was once reading someone's MA thesis, an archaeological study that was written entirely in the first person. I'm not against people using the first person occasionally in certain contexts in academic writing, but this ended up being the person just talking about themselves and really ticked me off. It was otherwise a decent piece of work, but I thought the constant self-reference came off a little bit arrogant, like, 'You couldn't possibly understand this yourself, so you'll just have to take my word for it.'

Something like that?

 

[egg_]

Something like that?

I guess
I suppose in a book like Nickel and Dimed (or an MA thesis) what I am interested in is the facts. I don't really care how the author feels, what I care about is how I would feel if those facts applied to me ... and it's up to me to imagine that for myself

 

[Mathatma Scarfe]

Well it seems that the yanks are getting fed up with the work etic over there too

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2003-12-16-hours-cover_x.htm

A backlash is building against America's work epidemic.
More employees are resisting companies' demands for longer hours on the job, the 24/7 pace of business that means operations never cease, and the surrender of leisure time to work because of new technology such as cell phones and e-mail.

"People are putting in 40 and 50 hours a week, and there's not enough time for anything," says Gretchen Burger, in Seattle, an organizer with Take Back Your Time, a grass-roots movement aimed at focusing attention on the issue of overwork. "There is an alternative."