congratulations, mrs. and mr. jane! (2 Viewers)

[Buzzo]

I'm curious though. Anyone who feels it's weird, for feminist reasons, to take your husband's name, how would you feel about a husband taking the wife's name? Would you be ok with that and not question it?

I'd totally question it because I think it's really interesting and would be interested to know what motivates people to do that shit, because I'm really nosey.

I think to understand the/a feminist viewpoint on this you have to locate it in it's historical feminist context- resisting aeons and aeons of male power and ownership of women. The taking of the mans name is hugely symbolic of this (ownership of you being passed from yer da to yer fella). The other way round mightn't have the same cultural or historical connotations, and certainly doesn't possess the same power as a symbolic act. That being said, it's such a personal decision and it's not cool to judge people on it- but I think there's value in discussing these things as phenomena all the same.

 

[Space]

I don't see why anyone would or has the right to question someone else's choice either way. Personally I'm not too keen on marriage at all but I'm not gonna question why anyone would want to get married.

Sweet oblivion, I did question what you meant by "(feeling guilty about) judging people who do take their husband's name" rather than just assume you meant what you wrote.

Edit after buzzo's post: I think there's a different meaning to questioning someone's choice and asking the reasons for their choice. Semantics eh.

 

[sweetoblivion]

I suppose I sort of explained it as feeling guilty for judging as in thinking 'why?' when someone takes their husband's name. Feeling guilty because I have no right to judge them, there are a multitude of reasons behind taking your husband's name, taking your husband's name is not a 'bad' thing to do, etc.

 

[Squiggle]

Everything I'm saying is coming out wrong...of course I don't think women are forced into taking their husband's name...but I suppose you know how it is, when you think one way, you can't understand why people think another way. And yes, we should just be happy for people whatever they choose. As regards men taking their wife's name - that's completely different because traditionally men were never supposed to take their wife's name to keep the bloodline going, or because they were her chattel, or because they were considered of a higher status than her.

Well, it could also be argued that, historically, many women took their husbands surname because it afforded status. Before women moved into traditionally male dominated jobs (mostly because of wars) it wasn't a factor. And the names used do vary from culture to culture.

I am happy to embrace equality, which means being accepting, but I always feel uncomfortable with feminism being used to excuse what borders on misandry. We live in the here and now and we cannot excuse so-called 'positive discrimination' on the basis of the past.

Not that I am accusing any of Thumped's ladies of this, any that I've met are incredible women... but it is something that I have noticed and very much the reason that I do not think of myself as a feminist, and never will. In our eagerness to obtain equality women have frequently gone too far.

It's not easy to accept that everything has to be taken one step at a time, but it does, and unless we respect that and behave accordingly we're really not doing ourselves any favours.

Edit: Buzzo, yes, it would be curious, and I have one (male) friend who took his wife's surname. She had no brothers (mentioned it earlier in the thread I think). It was very sweet of him. I also know one couple who both hyphenated their names, adopting both surnames.

As to the historical reasons. Sure, but not all women saw, or see it that way, and maybe not all women actually had a problem with it either.

 

[Space]

I'm outta here.

 

[the strange guy]

Me too.

 

[sweetoblivion]

To be honest, I don't want to talk about feminism on here any more because it's gotten me into too much trouble before! I don't agree with some of what you said Squiggle, but it's cool - I don't think either of us will change each other's mind so best to leave it as it is and respect each other's opinions

 

[Squiggle]

To be honest, I don't want to talk about feminism on here any more because it's gotten me into too much trouble before! I don't agree with some of what you said Squiggle, but it's cool - I don't think either of us will change each other's mind so best to leave it as it is and respect each other's opinions

Agreed

 

[Buzzo]

I'd suggest, out of respect for the happy couple maybe ceasing discussion or splitting the thread at this point, or Jane's congrats are gonna get pretty firey.

 

[Squiggle]

I'd suggest, out of respect for the happy couple maybe ceasing discussion or splitting the thread at this point, or Jane's congrats are gonna get pretty firey.

Ah, sorry Jane. Was just curious is all. Some interesting thoughts and feelings were expressed and I was trying to understand what I saw as an inconsistency.

Back on topic... Jane and Mr Jane are definitely the most amazingly well-suited couple I've ever met. Yeay for happy, smiling people.

 

[sweetoblivion]

They certainly look like a gorgeous couple, and their marriage is making me squee!! It's so beautiful to see two people in love. Aaah. (sorry for taking over yr thread Jane, my apologies!)

 

[jane]

Aw, thanks. It's true.

As for the name change thing, I think the point I was trying to make is that the success of feminism in that regard is that now women and couples have far more choice in how they are named after marriage. And I have no right to judge which one they make because the choice is more important than anything. And yet still I feel it's anachronistic for me, when for a lot of people it's nothing to do with that, nothing to do with its former meaning, but a practical decision, or just doesn't bother them to do so, and it's other people who make a big deal out of it, not them.

Our conversations go like this:

"What will we do if we have kids?"

"They can have both our names."

"But then that might sound wanky."

"I dunno, let's kiss."

"YAAAAY!"

Something like that. I think once they're born, the decision will kind of make itself. Whatever is logical and best for us will be the decision we make, but at least it will be ours. I'm torn between wanting us all to have the same name and not wanting anyone to have to give theirs up. So we may hyphenate and suck up the fact that it makes us sound like middle-class dorks because hey, we are middle-class dorks.

Back to me and Mr Jane making everyone sick. We are ridiculously happy times a million now. Not just together, but additionally happy because we did this pretty awesome thing and now everyone knows about it.

 

[broken arm]

I'd totally question it because I think it's really interesting and would be interested to know what motivates people to do that shit, because I'm really nosey.

I think to understand the/a feminist viewpoint on this you have to locate it in it's historical feminist context- resisting aeons and aeons of male power and ownership of women. The taking of the mans name is hugely symbolic of this (ownership of you being passed from yer da to yer fella). The other way round mightn't have the same cultural or historical connotations, and certainly doesn't possess the same power as a symbolic act. That being said, it's such a personal decision and it's not cool to judge people on it- but I think there's value in discussing these things as phenomena all the same.

you're such a let's-get-consensual-hippy-slag.

.|..|

 

[jane]

Wait a minute, DUH. We're both changing our name to Springsteen.

Problem solved.

I mean, we danced the fuck out of Born to Run. We earned the right to be Springsteens.

 

[theweeyin]

So are you gonna be Ms R****** now instead of Miss?

 

[Diddles]

Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

 

[classic seanc]

Congrats.

 

[mazzyianne]

Congrats!!! Looks like it was deadly, sorry I missed it. Ya look only gorgeous!
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[egg_]

Sorry to resurrect the name thing, but I think it'd be kinda cool to make up your own surname, adopt it for yourself and give that to your kids. Start your own line, y'know?

 

[MDR]

My wife took my surname when we got married. It was completely up to her. She just wanted to have the same name as me because we're so close. From time to time, she does get some asshole barking at her because of it, but that's rare enough.