Channel 4's news on the Leb/Israeli conflict compared to Sky (1 Viewer)

[Pantone247]

Anne Coulters take on the subject:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/...Coulter&dt=07/19/2006&page=full&comments=true

The fact that Israel is able to launch an attack on Hezbollah today without instantly inciting a multination conflagration in the Middle East is proof of what Bush has accomplished. He has begun to create a moderate block of Arab leaders who are apparently not interested in becoming the next Saddam Hussein.[/qoute]

MODERATE!!!

I've not read any of this crazy bitchs stuff before, it's hilarious fucked up

 

[ITalkShite]

MODERATE!!!

I've not read any of this crazy bitchs stuff before, it's hilarious fucked up

I wonder if Bruce Springsteen could sue her for stealing his album title.

 

[hugh]

I watched zurich last night. I want a single, short and to the point sentence explaining how and when this all started. Time is money, hurry up.

You mean Munich don't you?

 

[xrockridgex]

Well I think the americans are right , israel does have a right to defend itself, as does any state under attack from terrorists. However its actions, backed by the israel lobby in the states, are so illogical that they frequently serve to undermine america's and often israels's interests. This is just another exercise in the creation of terrorists by targeting, whether purposfully or not, civilians and making it easy for Hezbollah and others to recruit.

There is a very good paper by two neo-con scholars about the americans support for israel for anyone interested. They look at the support for Israel as undermining america's own interests. They were accused of being anti-semitic when it was published and I think one of the had to resign from Harvard.
edited version
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
full pdf
http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06-011

 

[Janer]

Well I think the americans are right , israel does have a right to defend itself, as does any state under attack from terrorists. However its actions, backed by the israel lobby in the states, are so illogical that they frequently serve to undermine america's and often israels's interests. This is just another exercise in the creation of terrorists by targeting, whether purposfully or not, civilians and making it easy for Hezbollah and others to recruit.

1) They are also entitled to release arab prisoners who for some have been in custody over 20 years.
2) Terrorists?

Stick to the footy forums u know more there son.

 

[xrockridgex]

2) Terrorists?
.

Why? do you consider them freedom fighters? What freedoms are they fighting for?
the point I was trying to make is that Israel has enjoyed such a carte blanche to do what they like, that they dont even know what they are doing anymore. And thats whats so genuinely scary about these guys and the people who support them. They are so convinced of their own doctrines they dont realise what the consquences are for themselves. And obviously they dont give a fuck about the consequences for others.

 

[erin]

There is a very good paper by two neo-con scholars about the americans support for israel for anyone interested. They look at the support for Israel as undermining america's own interests. They were accused of being anti-semitic when it was published and I think one of the had to resign from Harvard.
edited version
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
full pdf
http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06-011

Mearsheimer & walt’s article has been criticised, but on completely valid grounds- they blame virtually all of US actions in the middle east on the ‘israel lobby’… theres major problems with such a conviction…

Constructing this idea of an all powerful Israeli lobby only excuses the US administration from any responsibility- the US administration can then be viewed as a helpless actor, subject to the whims of such a lobby.

Mearsheimer & walt do not take into consideration the fact that the US has strategic interests in Israel. maintaining US foreign policy towards Israel serves numerous & varied US foreign policy interests throughout the middle east

Some assumptions by the writers are also very questionable- they argue for example ‘...the related effort to spread democracy throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion.’ This is a careless and unfounded generalisation. The "spread of democracy throughout the region" has not inflamed muslim/arab opinion. It has been the hypocrisy of consistent US propping up of tyrannies and oppressive dictatorships that has inflamed opinion.

The writers also fail to place US foreign policy in the Middle East into the wider context of the global role of the US , which is concentrated on maintaining their position as a hegemonic power. .|..|

 

[crusticide]

Hey Janer, did I hear you say before that you work in fast food delivery? Thought you'd be interested in hearing how the lads chow down after a hard day's Arab-slaughtering.

http://pizzaidf.org/Haaretz/

Dig real deep, folks. Maybe we could do some benefits, sponsor a whole company or something. Sometimes you can feel so helpless over here, ya know.

 

[Janer]

Why? do you consider them freedom fighters? What freedoms are they fighting for?

1) They are an independent militia that take on the might of Israel and have popular support acorss Lebannon and the wider Arab community

2) They ousted Israel from Lebannon in 2000 after many years of fighting them in southern Lebannon and are of course perceived as heroes across the Arab countries and presently they are fighting in solidarity of the Palestinians in The Gaza Strip who are being butchered by Israeli forces (IDF) and for the release of the prisoners held for as long as 20 years in the Israeli Jails.

 

[Shay HT]

for fuck sake!

http://pizzaidf.org/Haaretz/

 

[Shay HT]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/panorama/2006/07/20/PA2006072001249.html

 

[xrockridgex]

1) They are an independent militia that take on the might of Israel and have popular support across Lebanon and the wider Arab community

currently they are engaging in acts of terror by attacking Isreali civilian targets ,and the Israelis are doing likewise, but they also have a history of assisting both the planning and funding of suicide bombers. The current rocket attacks have been so indiscriminate that they have killed at least one Arab-Isreali child. The popular support they enjoy was also part of my original point; Israeli foreign policy has always been an exercise, both directly and indirectly, in the creation of terrorists by creating the conditions under which they thrive i.e. the slaughter of civilians and destruction of basic services.

2) They ousted Israel from Lebanon in 2000 after many years of fighting them in southern Lebanon and are of course perceived as heroes across the Arab countries and presently they are fighting in solidarity of the Palestinians in The Gaza Strip who are being butchered by Israeli forces (IDF) and for the release of the prisoners held for as long as 20 years in the Israeli Jails.

Their ultimate goal is to destroy the state of Israel, a goal long given up by most Arab governments and people's, including Hamas, who now recognize Israel. People care about the humanitarian situation of the Palestinians more than anything else and recognize a negotiated two state settlement with free passage between Gaza and the west bank is the viable way to achieve this. The Palestinians themselves have been sold out and used as political football so many times; their own wishes don’t seem to matter anymore. They don’t want solidarity, they don’t want war, they want peace and the ability to forge their own destiny. They elected Hamas because it made an effort to provide basic services and improve their every day lives.

 

[xrockridgex]

Mearsheimer & walt’s article has been criticised, but on completely valid grounds- they blame virtually all of US actions in the middle east on the ‘israel lobby’… theres major problems with such a conviction…

Constructing this idea of an all powerful Israeli lobby only excuses the US administration from any responsibility- the US administration can then be viewed as a helpless actor, subject to the whims of such a lobby.

Helpless is the wrong word. Try and express solidarity with the Palestinians and see how long you last in congress. Doesn’t happen, at least not on any noticeable scale. Public office in America is full of people who are either staunch likiduniks (or Kadiamites if you prefer) or know they could never speak out against Israel and get reelected. Even if an American administration wanted to reel in spending and diplomatic support for Israel, congress would come down on it like ton of bricks and destroy its whole legislative program for four years.

Mearsheimer & walt do not take into consideration the fact that the US has strategic interests in Israel. maintaining US foreign policy towards Israel serves numerous & varied US foreign policy interests throughout the middle east

Most academic papers make assumptions and exclusions in order to build a model for the real world phenomena they are trying to explain. They wanted to convey the power of the Israeli lobby and to at least theorise that it is the main reason behind such staunch support in the face of logic and popular opinion is not unreasonable. The US has interests in most countries that aren’t landlocked and completely devoid of natural resources.

Some assumptions by the writers are also very questionable- they argue for example ‘...the related effort to spread democracy throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion.’ This is a careless and unfounded generalisation. The "spread of democracy throughout the region" has not inflamed muslim/arab opinion. It has been the hypocrisy of consistent US propping up of tyrannies and oppressive dictatorships that has inflamed opinion.

The writers also fail to place US foreign policy in the Middle East into the wider context of the global role of the US , which is concentrated on maintaining their position as a hegemonic power. .|..|

Spreading democracy and freedom has long been neo-con speak for looking after America’s interests. They are neo-con's, so they use neo-con language. The whole point of them writing the paper was to highlight the fact that US policy in the region was jeopardizing that hegemonic position by losing their soft power

 

[classic seanc]

I've noticed that Lebanese women (the non religious ones) are quite hott.


I think this needs to be said

 

[ITalkShite]

Well I think the americans are right , israel does have a right to defend itself, as does any state under attack from terrorists.

What a bizarre claim; it doesn't even begin to make sense. It's amazing that Israel can claim that bombing another country is 'defence'. It's even more amazing that people will believe them.

 

[Chad]

I've noticed that Lebanese women (the non religious ones) are quite hott.


I think this needs to be said

should we organise some kind of benefit to rescue these poor girls from their war-torn existence?

 

[xrockridgex]

What a bizarre claim; it doesn't even begin to make sense. It's amazing that Israel can claim that bombing another country is 'defence'. It's even more amazing that people will believe them.

The rest of that post actually says that their actions "in self defense" are completly illogical. And of course its a given that the phrase the americans use is complete bullshit.

 

[Janer]

Their ultimate goal is to destroy the state of Israel, a goal long given up by most Arab governments and people's, including Hamas, who now recognize Israel.

100% wrong.....Hamas has being under massive pressure to recogonise the state of Israel but have NOT changed their stance......They do NOT recogonise Israel.

 

[hugh]

but they (Hezbollah) also have a history of assisting both the planning and funding of suicide bombers.

I could be wrong about this, but as I understand it, hezbollah stopped doing this a long time ago. They did the big truck bomb in Beirut which killed all the us marines but I think they stopped doing it a good while before 2000. Have they done any suicide bombings against civilians within Israel? I dont think so ...

Also, how many rocket attacks across the border have they actually carried out between 2000 up to the current crisis? Again, I'm not 100% sure, but as far as I know very very few. Anyone know?

I've noticed that Lebanese women (the non religious ones) are quite hott.

This I do know about and can confirm to be 100% correct.

 

[skrellp]

Letter from Chomsky, Berger, Pinter and Saramago in the Irish Times on Friday:

"The latest chapter of the conflict between Israel and Palestine began when Israeli forces abducted two civilians, a doctor and his brother, from Gaza. An incident scarcely reported anywhere, except in the Turkish press. The following day the Palestinians took an Israeli soldier prisoner - and proposed a negotiated exchange against prisoners taken by the Israelis - there are approximately 10,000 in Israeli jails."

So, if what Chomsky et al say is true, not only was this whole thing initiated by Israel, but the whole 'smokescreen for the devilish Iranians and Syrians' (and probably the North Koreans at some later point) is, of course, codswallop. And Hamas, while not coming across as cuddly freedom fighters just yet, do seem to be attempting things like negotiating (not at the barrel of the gun, if there's already a gun placed at them) before launching a full scale assault (Remember, they were on cease-fire for nearly a year until recently), a supposedly inherently democratic notion, and not one usually associated with islamic terrorists.

By happy coincidence, Omert's polls have shot up since he showed himself to be 'strong in the face of terror'.