Casual anti-Americanism (4 Viewers)

[Bellatrix]

I mean, for fuck's sake... Ireland spends, I dunno how many millions of euro every year on two sports that they refuse to promote in any other country. It's inward looking if anything.

There's nothing inherently xenophobic about having national sports. Preserving culture is important.

 

[egg_]

The GAA is an extension of the basic culshie personality. I reckon it's a much a force for good as is possible for a genuine grassroots organisation in Ireland (and, incidentally, one of the 4 sports it promotes is the Most Amazing Sport Ever)

Anyway, what has that got to do with xenophobia in Ireland?

 

[Doctor Muscles]

hate the gaaaaaaaaays

 

[jane]

That happens to everyone here who isn't Irish, and to everyone in France who isn't French, and and and. Some friends of mine think it's funny to call me a Nazi, and people often make ridiculous and offensive comments to me in a professional context upon introduction because my surname has an umlaut in it, and isn't Doyle, or Smith, or McWhatever, and so isn't easily classifiable, and I'm only half-foreign, and certainly don't look or sound like I am. My brother-in-law constantly gets abuse from random people in the pub (not to mention consistently shite service in pubs from grumpy middle-aged pricks) because he's French, despite the fact that his English is impeccable, though accented. It happened to my mother in Germany for 15 years too, despite the fact that she made every effort to fit in.
That's not a defence, or a justification, or even a casual "stop moaning about it" statement, but xenophobia, be it mild or otherwise is a regrettable part of living abroad, even for middle-class white people, and one which is usually ameliorated by the positives. Wouldn't the same thing happen to you (though perhaps to a lesser extent) if you moved from, say, NY to West Virginia? Or even just switched coasts in the US?
I really don't like it, and I do occasionally directly address it when I'm feeling particularly short-tempered or hungover, but on the whole, I find it too tiring to try and constantly fight what I feel is a losing battle.

This is the thing. I mean, it's annoying for everyone, and it shouldn't have to be a part of living abroad. I don't condone it anywhere. I'm sure in the US, IRish people are plagued with well-meaning people constantly pointing out that they 'love the accent' and shit, and it has to be really annoying, especially once someone has made that country their home, and would like sometimes to be acknowledged as something other than Obviously Foreign Born Person.

I think I'm realising that it's not ameliorated by the positives because, due to the shitty immigration laws (which have changed since I moved here), I am going to have no choice but to leave Ireland, probably by the end of next year. It makes it harder to accept that people are poking gentle fun when actually, every time they go to the polls, they vote to get rid of the foreigners. Doesn't feel much like gentle fun since it's become impossible, even for a nice American girl (though class/race/etc shouldn't actually be an advantage) to make a life here. Even if I got married, I'd have to be a housewife.

As for last names, it's really insane. No one can get my last name right, even when I spell it fifty times for them (it's not that difficult, it's just very obviously not Irish), and then they ask where it's from, and then I get the fucking mafia comments (which I also get from other Americans, so, well, fine, yes, all Italian-Americans are mobsters -- whatever). Yeah, I had quite interesting experiences living in western Maryland, where New Englanders might as well be from another planet, but while it's annoying, it's slightly less annoying when you still have a legal right to be in the country.

But yeah, I'm sure it isn't necessarily a conscious expression of xenophobia, but I do think that it's facilitated by the existence of a generalised xenophobia. And anyway, to some extent, I'm sure people with country accents get shit all over Dublin, and vice-versa. But I do think that there is an added difficulty with just not being allowed to live here without the permission of the Irish electorate.

In general, it's a pain in the ass having one's differences pointed out for you when you didn't ask for it. I'm sure that, as well, people who are queer have to cope every day with people's assumptions that when someone assumes he or she is straight, they have to decide whether or not to explain, or just to let the assumption go rather than be forced to explain their sexuality to someone whose business it is not.

I suppose what I'm trying to get at in general is that it should be okay to challenge someone, and that it should be enough to do so gently (but usually, it just escalates into "What's the big deal! You have no sense of humour!") whatever someone's difference is. Or when people think, "You're american, you're just like us," it's not necessarily true, but that that should be totally fine. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense here.

 

[billygannon]

There's nothing inherently xenophobic about having national sports. Preserving culture is important.

But there is something wrong when you make that sport exclusive to your country.
And when you ban other sports (i.e. those evil English sports of soccer and rugby, but not the perfectly acceptable sport of American football) from being played on the pitches that are only used a couple of months every year.
How come sports such as tennis, or golf, or football, or rugby, or baseball, or basketball, or pretty much any other sport you can think of, are played at international levels?
The only other sport I can think of that's guarded in such a way by the nation is Aussie Rules.
The behaviour of the GAA towards promoting it and incorporating other countries into it is just daft. Hurling and Gaelic football are excellent games that a lot of other people from other countries would love to play. It's been managed in a way where they're frightened if the foreigner should come in and take it over. It's plain stupid.

 

[therealjohnny]

There's nothing inherently xenophobic about having national sports. Preserving culture is important.

Like them damn yankees and their "world series" baseball malarkey!

pah

 

[Bellatrix]

But there is something wrong when you make that sport exclusive to your country.
And when you ban other sports (i.e. those evil English sports of soccer and rugby, but not the perfectly acceptable sport of American football) from being played on the pitches that are only used a couple of months every year.

Well, there are GAA teams in London and New York among other places. Also, while there's definitely an element of "800 years" about the banning of English sports on GAA pitches, I think there's also a concern that the Irish have proven themselves highly adept at tossing out integral elements of our culture (such as our language, alphabet etc), often over the course of just one generation. I think the purpose of keeping GAA pitches for national sports is to ensure that people remember that they are national sports.

I imagine they regard an American football match as being similar to a Garth Brooks concert: a once-off spectacle that is unlikely to capture the national imagination.

 

[jane]

Like them damn yankees and their "world series" baseball malarkey!

pah

Dude, we let Canada into it. What more do you want?

But seriously, okay, the name 'world series' is a bit silly, but it began as something that was very much aspirational. When baseball was first developed as a professional sport, other countries didn't play it. Now they do, but the World Series as it stands remains the same. I think I read somewhere that they called it that because they hoped other countries would take up baseball and it would become a truly international sport, but I can't remember where I read it, or if I might have misread something...


ETA: RED SOX KICK ASS.

 

[billygannon]

Well, there are GAA teams in London and New York among other places.

Well, when you say "other places" you mean "no places". The London and New York teams are, if anything, just enclaves for Irish people living in these cities (and there's more Irish people here in London than there is in Cork). It would be genuinely interesting seeing a team from, say, Budapest playing Dublin. It'll never happen.

Also, while there's definitely an element of "800 years" about the banning of English sports on GAA pitches, I think there's also a concern that the Irish have proven themselves highly adept at tossing out integral elements of our culture (such as our language, alphabet etc), often over the course of just one generation. I think the purpose of keeping GAA pitches for national sports is to ensure that people remember that they are national sports.

You don't have to stop other sports and other people playing your game to retain it's identity as a "national sport". That's ridiculous. Cricket or football are the national sports of England, yet they're played in several other countries. Basketball is one of the national sports of the US, yet it's played everywhere as well. And even in Sumo Wrestling, where the World Champions are Polish guys.

I imagine they regard an American football match as being similar to a Garth Brooks concert: a once-off spectacle that is unlikely to capture the national imagination.

Well, they played two or three of these on Croke Park. Rejecting soccer or rugby, which in themselves could have been once-off spectacles, is inward looking and, well, xenophobic.

 

[Bellatrix]

Well, when you say "other places" you mean "no places". The London and New York teams are, if anything, just enclaves for Irish people living in these cities (and there's more Irish people here in London than there is in Cork). It would be genuinely interesting seeing a team from, say, Budapest playing Dublin. It'll never happen.

Aren't there some in Australia? I don't know - whatever. Anyway, the spread of sports like soccer and cricket didn't occur through some sort of deliberate promotional campaign by the English, it came about through just the sort of "enclaves" you described. The sports then became increasingly popular in various countries for various reasons - in India, for example, adopting English customs and playing English sports was seen as a mark of gentility

You don't have to stop other sports and other people playing your game to retain it's identity as a "national sport".

You shouldn't have to - it's a form of protectionism really. Maybe at some future point when the Irish language and culture aren't in the process of dying out they'll relax about it.

 

[#10-7]

i love gaa.
if the irish don't spend money on it who will? how can it compete with soccer in britain? or rugby?

anyway- when i lived in new york on my J1 i was made pretty clear that irish people were seen as being dopey, backward, funny, friendly alcholics.

from my experience some british people and spanish people are more rasist than the irish.

 

[jane]

i love gaa.
if the irish don't spend money on it who will? how can it compete with soccer in britain? or rugby?

anyway- when i lived in new york on my J1 i was made pretty clear that irish people were seen as being dopey, backward, funny, friendly alcholics.

from my experience some british people and spanish people are more rasist than the irish.

But just because there are other people who are bigoted doesn't excuse it anywhere (I know you're not actually saying that, but it's an excuse that gets hauled out sometimes), and imagine if instead of a few months of being assumed to be a dopey drunk, it went on for nine years, and rather than get better, got worse?

 

[#10-7]

But just because there are other people who are bigoted doesn't excuse it anywhere (I know you're not actually saying that, but it's an excuse that gets hauled out sometimes), and imagine if instead of a few months of being assumed to be a dopey drunk, it went on for nine years, and rather than get better, got worse?

i think everyone who lives away from their home country gets treated in a way that makes them react differently.
while in the states the reaction i got was fine, but i did find myself trying to explain to people that we had electricity and no donkeys in the kitchen.

(speaking of which the corrs did an interview in some american magazine which mentioned something about an "age old irish problem of incest")

anyway, sorry you feel this way about it, i will endevour to watch my mouth.

 

[Osama Van Halen]

YOU DON'T GOTTA LEAVE THE CUNTRY EVEN.......

CHECK THIS SHIT OUT, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO, AFTER PLAYING A BASKETBALL GAME IN BELFAST... WENT INTO THE CITY CENTER WHERE FOUR FUCKIN' SHIT BAGS SPLIT MY EYE SOCKET IN HALF AND KICKED ME IN THE HEAD, SMASHING TEETH 'THROUGH' MY TOUNGE.

SPECIFICALLY 'CAUSE I SPOKE WITH AN DUBLIN TWANG. GOT THE FULL RUN OF 'FENIAN,TERRORIST...' BOLLOX TOO.

BECAUSE THEY HEARD ME TALKIN' AS THEY WALKED PAST DRINKIN' CHEAP PISS BEER.(GUESS WHICH BEER). TOTAL SCOBIE/SCUMBAG/GOUGER/HEDZ.

IN THE END THEY GOT DONE FOR IT. RUC OFFICERS BEAT THEM SENSELESS TOO. FUCKIN' DEADLY.

PEOPLE ARE ASSHOLES ALL OVER THE WORLD. BET EVERYONE HERE THERE'S AT LEAST ONE ASSHOLE IN YOUR OWN FAMILY.
SINCE THEN, I GIVE AS GOOD AS I GET AND MORE. NOT ANGRY THOUGH. IN A HARD ROCK/FUNK KINDA WAY.

XENOQUAANNDO!!!

 

[egg_]

It would be genuinely interesting seeing a team from, say, Budapest playing Dublin. It'll never happen.

Billy! Do you really think the GAA should be sending people over to Budapest to tryto get young fellas to hurl? Are you out of your mind?

 

[therealjohnny]

BALLYFERMOQUAANNDO!!!

hey! I think I know you?

the internet is weird

 

[billygannon]

Billy! Do you really think the GAA should be sending people over to Budapest to tryto get young fellas to hurl? Are you out of your mind?

Well, there's plenty of Irish people who are happy to buy up property there, so why not?
Didn't three English men, namely Kiplin, Allison and Davies, set up AC Milan? Or Charles Miller who introduced football to Brazil?
Can't see why Paddy Murphy couldn't set up a GAA team in Budapest.

 

[Squiggle]

Is it just me or does it seem that this thread is beginning to turn into a not so casual anti-irish thread?

I think we're beginning to miss the point - that making generalised, sweeping statements about any nationality, religion, race etc. shouldn't be acceptable in any globalised community.

 

[billygannon]

Is it just me or does it seem that this thread is beginning to turn into a not so casual anti-irish thread?

It is an anti-Irish thread!
The problem with a lot of Irish people is that they think they're loved everywhere, but think it's acceptable to take the piss out of anyone because of their nationality. Fair enough, it's generally done in a light-hearted manner, but it can make for a unwelcome and uncomfortable environment for people who aren't Irish.

Most people here have some connection with Ireland, hence the Irish-bating. If this were an English indie music message board, or Spanish board, it'd probably have criticisms of English people or Spanish people being unwelcome to foreigners.

I think we're beginning to miss the point - that making generalised, sweeping statements about any nationality, religion, race etc. shouldn't be acceptable in any globalised community.

Yep.

 

[egg_]

Billy, c'mon dude. Hurling isn't soccer - you need to build up a certain level of skill before you can even begin to play it, and you need a huge area to play it in. It's strictly amateur, and to get to the top levels requires a huge committment to a career that pays only in "glory".

And anyway, here, even if the games were simple to play, why on earth should the GAA try and export them? I honestly can't think of a single reason. Your argument strikes me as bizzarre