Casual anti-Americanism (1 Viewer)

[krystal]

correct me if I'm wrong. but don't london play in some GAA league?

 

[billygannon]

Billy, c'mon dude. Hurling isn't soccer - you need to build up a certain level of skill before you can even begin to play it, and you need a huge area to play it in. It's strictly amateur, and to get to the top levels requires a huge committment to a career that pays only in "glory".

Well, I accept that you need to start playing hurling at around the age of five to be any good at it.
But it's not even promoted properly within Ireland.

Up until about five or ten years ago, rugby union was a strictly amateur sport (except for Australia and New Zealand). Getting to the top level of that game requires at least as much committment as it does in hurling.
As well as that, most athletics sports you see in the Olympics are conducted in a quasi-amateur way. It's almost financially unfeasible for an athelete to train to be at the top level in a track or field Olympic sport, yet they still do it.

And anyway, here, even if the games were simple to play, why on earth should the GAA try and export them? I honestly can't think of a single reason

For the simple reason that it's another sport for people to play. It's another sport that people could enjoy and make their lives better. It'd be a positive contribution by Ireland to other countries.
It's like saying that we shouldn't let other countries hear Irish music or see Irish plays. It is a bit daft.
I can't understand the logic behind not exporting it or promoting it in other countries.

 

[billygannon]

correct me if I'm wrong. but don't london play in some GAA league?

London have played in All-Ireland finals.
However it's hardly your wide-boys from Essex and Kent playing for them. It's the "diaspora".

 

[krystal]

it is and it isn't - neil went to school with english born 'irish' who played hurling. and to bolster your point, look how popular irish dancing is - globally.

 

[Squiggle]

It is an anti-Irish thread!
The problem with a lot of Irish people is that they think they're loved everywhere, but think it's acceptable to take the piss out of anyone because of their nationality. Fair enough, it's generally done in a light-hearted manner, but it can make for a unwelcome and uncomfortable environment for people who aren't Irish.

Again with the sweeping generalisations. Not all Irish people do that. And at least the Irish are generally not considered to belong among the many nations who take their cultural bias with them when they go travelling. It is horrendously uncomfortalbe to be travelling with someone who complains about how "foreign" everything is while travelling through Europe, Asia or wherever.

Most people here have some connection with Ireland, hence the Irish-bating. If this were an English indie music message board, or Spanish board, it'd probably have criticisms of English people or Spanish people being unwelcome to foreigners.

Yes, I understand that. But I still feel that the point has been missed. The comments about the GAA for example. One could respond by saying that the reason that so many nations play Rugby or Football has quite a bit to do with the British Colonial Empire, while Ireland's attitude to GAA has to do with the times when playing it was liable to get you arrested or beaten up.

Does it matter?

At the end of the day I fail to see how it is relevant to the point at hand that Jane has been upset by people who are either taking jokes a little too far or deliberately causing offence.

Jane, best thing to do - either smile and walk away or simply say "I'm sorry, but I find your comment offensive"

 

[krystal]

don't apologise! stand there, look them in the eye and say 'I find your comment offensive'. THEN walk away. Rude pricks are rude pricks, no matter what their seed or breed.

 

[therealjohnny]

look how popular irish dancing is - globally.

thats not Irish dancing!

its a degenerate hybrid of jungle rythmic gyrating and arm waving protestant corruption!

and Michael Flately is divorced!

I blame america

 

[billygannon]

Again with the sweeping generalisations. Not all Irish people do that.

Well, of course I didn't mean all Irish people do that.

And at least the Irish are generally not considered to belong among the many nations who take their cultural bias with them when they go travelling. It is horrendously uncomfortalbe to be travelling with someone who complains about how "foreign" everything is while travelling through Europe, Asia or wherever.

Em... there are plenty of Irish people who'll take their cultural bias with them wherever they go.
We have the same proportion of louts as the English, Spanish and Germans do.

Yes, I understand that. But I still feel that the point has been missed. The comments about the GAA for example. One could respond by saying that the reason that so many nations play Rugby or Football has quite a bit to do with the British Colonial Empire, while Ireland's attitude to GAA has to do with the times when playing it was liable to get you arrested or beaten up.

From what I understand, the British Empire never went near Italy, or Brazil, or Spain, or France, or Romania, or Argentina. All of these are countries where rugby and football are played by loads of people.

At the end of the day I fail to see how it is relevant to the point at hand that Jane has been upset by people who are either taking jokes a little too far or deliberately causing offence.

Jane, best thing to do - either smile and walk away or simply say "I'm sorry, but I find your comment offensive"

The relevance of my points about Ireland is that Jane was slagged off by Irish people. My girlfriend has suffered the same, if not worse, abuse. It's something I'm embarrassed about, being an Irishman and it's something I think that Ireland should actually address.
The GAA is something which has enormous political, financial and social power within Ireland and it represents an inward-looking and exclusive view of what Ireland should be. This isn't a view which is shared among a lot of Irish people, but it's a view which has a lot of muscle in Irish politics.
If they were to promote hurling and gaelic football abroad, it would represent a very positive step in showing that Ireland is a society that's actually inclusive and welcomes people from other cultures participating in sports and activities that have come from our country.

Fair enough the way in which Britain treated GAA and Irish cultural activities was disgraceful.
But nowadays the British government actually gives money to GAA (hence the strength of Ulster teams in the All-Ireland championship - they get extra dosh from the UK government).
But that's all another argument for another day.

What Kirstie said with regards to Jane being slagged. She should just tell whoever gives her guff about being American that they're a tosser and then kick them in the balls.

 

[Squiggle]

She should just tell whoever gives her guff about being American that they're a tosser and then kick them in the balls.

I'm in total agreement!

 

[Spam Javelin]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." - God, or someone.

 

[Franco]

The GAA can barely get people in Ireland to play hurling, let alone trying to convince people abroad to take it up.

 

[egg_]

Up until about five or ten years ago, rugby union was a strictly amateur sport ...

But there was always the option of defecting to rugby league ... same with track and field, these are "career" sports (even if they don't pay well), whereas GAA games are not (and FWIW I think that's right and proper)

I can't understand the logic behind not exporting it or promoting it in other countries.

I don't think you understand the nature of the GAA Billy. It's a community-based organisation, y'know. Nobody made a decision to not export the games, it's just that presumably no-one who's involved is interested. I sure wouldn't be interested

 

[jane]

The relevance of my points about Ireland is that Jane was slagged off by Irish people. My girlfriend has suffered the same, if not worse, abuse. It's something I'm embarrassed about, being an Irishman and it's something I think that Ireland should actually address.

I think this is the thing, though. Just as I don't think I should have to feel embarrassed to be American, no Irish person should feel he or she should have to feel embarrassed to be Irish. In fact, I think only when people divest themselves of the embarrassment can anyone take responsibility for how they display their/our own attitudes.

It's something I think everyone needs to address, whether we are part of marginalised groups or the dominant groups (because no group, probably, is ever always dominant or always marginalised), and yes, Irish people have to address it in their own particular way. I think in the Irish case, it's partly about accepting that for the first REAL time (because it's not like foreigners are a totally new thing, just a new thing in such large numbers) 'Irish' is a category that has potential power over others. Historically, it has not been. It does not mean saying that anti-Irish bias no longer exists because it most certainly does. It means 'checking our own privilege', and thinking about what we say and do.

I think a lot of the time it has to do with making people you don't know very well feel comfortable or uncomfortable, and one of the things in IReland is that there is a general sense of a small country where there is a strong sense of mutual familiarity (though I do think there's a level of hostility, at least in Dublin, that is tolerated and is really scary). The addition of a whole bunch of people who are actually strangers, and can't fit as easily into the two-degrees-of-separation game that is part of the social life here, can upset that because these people have caused that dynamic to need to change. So yes, Irish people will have to examine a lot of social behaviours, and some of them will change slowly, over time, and unconsciously, but I think people are going ot have to start to realise that when someone says, "I'm offended by what you've just said," and doesn't accept that it's just part of 'being Irish', it's not a dig at the very core of Irish identity. It's basically just saying that maybe, if someone says something and doesn't mean anything by it, then perhaps it's better left unsaid.

Jaysis. I think I'm making less sense than ever now. But basically, no one should feel embarrassed to be Irish because some twat mouthed off to me, any more than I should feel embarrassed to be American because a large proportion of Americans don't 'believe' in evolution, or voted for George Bush. Or are Dick Cheney. It doesn't mean we can't all make fun of people's fucked-up beliefs (even though ,eventually, we're going to have to engage with these people, fucked-up beliefs or no), just that we should be aware of the potential effects of our generalisations.

 

[billygannon]

I don't think you understand the nature of the GAA Billy. It's a community-based organisation, y'know.

The FA in England is a community-based organisation. The FA Cup shows this when you see ordinary club teams from local villages all competing to play in the same competition as the big Premiership teams. It's exactly the same - and, dare I say it, perhaps the GAA somewhat modelled itself on the FA.

Nobody made a decision to not export the games, it's just that presumably no-one who's involved is interested. I sure wouldn't be interested

That kind of says it all about those involved. I mean for fuck's sake, the whole business of not letting other sports being played on Croke Park - it's just ridiculous.

 

[Squiggle]

Did I imagine it or are there actually going to be some International football matches played at croker next year?

 

[therealjohnny]

Did I imagine it or are there actually going to be some International football matches played at croker next year?

Like a Northern Ireland team versus a team from the Republic?

probably

 

[jane]

Like a Northern Ireland team versus a team from the Republic?

probably

The People's Republic of Cork versus the Other Capital?

 

[Squiggle]

I knew I wasn't imagining it!

Going to be used for Rugby and Football Internationals while Landsdowne Road is being refurbished.


April 17, 2005
After intense campaigning during the week, yesterday at GAA Congress delegates voted to open Croke Park to Soccer and Rugby by 227 votes to 97. The stadium which can seat 82,500, is by far Ireland's largest and indeed one of the largest in Europe.
Traditionally soccer and rugby internationals had been played in the much smaller Landsdowne Road stadium, but due to redevelopment it seemed that all internationals would have to be played in the UK. However this situation has now been avoided with the vote by delegates to amend Rule 42 to allow soccer and rugby to be played at Croke Park during the redevelopment of Landsdowne Road. The works are expected to take three years to complete.
The international matches that can now be played in Dublin are expected to generate several million euros of revenue for the local economy.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Croke_Park_opens_to_soccer_and_Rugby

 

[billygannon]

Did I imagine it or are there actually going to be some International football matches played at croker next year?

Yes. After about ten years of negotiations. Some real twats who were stopping it happen.

 

[egg_]

The FA in England is a community-based organisation ... it's exactly the same

Billy, please. This just isn't true. Soccer is a business with a community-based element. That's a pretty fundamental difference

That kind of says it all about those involved.

What? You think ordinary members of the GAA are xenophobic because none of them are arsed flying out to Hungary to try and teach the natives how to double on a ball?

I mean for fuck's sake, the whole business of not letting other sports being played on Croke Park - it's just ridiculous.

This is a different issue to the promotion of GAA games abroad, but I don't really see what the big deal is about this. Number 1 it's private property, as far as I'm concerned the GAA can do what the fuck they like with it, and number 2 there's been majority support for allowing other sports use the ground for years, but you need a 2/3 majority to change certain rules