Bintifada (1 Viewer)

[pete]

Earlier tonight another TD who visited Mr Higgins in prison said the prisoner did not regret his action.

Labour’s Joe Costello said that Joe Higgins was “in very good form” and was drawing up a schedule for his jail term.

Mr Costello said: “He feels that he has acted in a principled fashion and he had indicated all along that he was opposing the bin charges.

“He feels that he has no choice but to continue and to do his time in prison.”

He said Higgins believed the sentence was far too harsh.

“He obviously has no criminal record and he had felt that it was inappropriate, that a sentence of that harshness would have been imposed in the first instance,” he said.

The other prisoners had been very helpful and understanding, and Mr Higgins believed he was getting on well with them.

He also told Mr Costello that he hoped to lose a stone in weight by exercising during the jail term.

Clare Daly, who is being held in the women’s section of Mountjoy, was also “in great form“.

Mr Costello said, however, that she was worried about the impact of the imprisonment on her three-year-old child.

“She obviously wasn’t expecting that she would be in for that period of time,” he added.

The Labour leader said that although he did not agree with the form of protest - whereby campaigners physically blocked bin lorries – he was against the waste charge and supported the pair.

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=99836152&p=99837xz4&n=99837030

ps there were more than 2,000 people there - police say 2,500, organisers say 5,000... the reality is probably somewhere in the middle

 

[mark]

bring a plackard that says "oh and another thing, anthony still has to pay €3 a bag, down with that sort of thing"

what with recycling and composting we try to put out a bag a fortnight. Doesn't always work though.

appearently my dad had a big email read out on pat kenny that basically said "SHUT THE FUCK UP AND PAY YOUR CHARGES LIKE WE'VE BEEN DOING FOR DONKEYS YEARS!"
man-o-the-people my da.

 

[pete]

gotta love that "we're being screwed so you should be too" attitude

 

[pete]

12 arrested at bin charge protests
September 23, 2003

Nine more people have been arrested in the Huntstown area of Blanchardstown in West Dublin in relation to anti bin tax protests. The nine, and two of three men arrested earlier this morning in Fortlawn, Clonsilla, are due to appear before the High Court this afternoon. Alan Lee and Hugh O'Connor appeared in court before lunch, and were given time to consult their legal representation.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0923/morningireland/morningireland5a.smil

 

[pete]

la la la talking to myself again la la la

from indymedia.ie:

Joe Duffy now interviewing those under arrest
by Andrew Tuesday, Sep 23 2003, 2:30pm


Just tuned in again and Joe Duffy has a live interview with those arrested and waiting to go into the High Court. Arrested include a husband and wife with 3 kids being looked after at home by their grandmother. They are trying to decide which one will go to jail and which will purge contempt to go home and look after children.

Several of those held say they are willing to go to prison.

related link: http://struggle.ws/wsm/bins.html


More details
by Andrew Tuesday, Sep 23 2003, 2:34pm
Husband and wife are called Stephen and Tracey. Stephen saying that for financial reasons he will purge contempt and wife will go to prison (she works part time). Tracy says she is prepared to go to prison, "he has to earn the money to pay for the morgage". She went out this morning to protest, did no to expect to be arrested. She says she has never even been at a bin charges meeting, this morning was the first time to protest. She is "prepared to stand up for what is right".

 

[pete]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0923/primetime/primetime56_1b.smil

Cullen vs. Coppinger, Prime Time 23rd Sept.

 

[niallmc]

Got to agree with most of what Pete has said in this. I was enjoying reading the informed debate before it got to its usual Thumped state.
Drumcondra has had the bin tax for the past 3 years, doesn't mean everyone has paid though - despite many bills and final reminders.
See you Tuesday at 6.30

 

[pete]

Wexican related stuff split off, relocating to Politics board.

 

[pete]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Cullen proposes rewards for less waste[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]writeDate()September 24, 2003[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]The Environment Minister, Martin Cullen, is proposing that all local authorities switch to a scheme that rewards people who produce less waste.
[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Mr Cullen has written to all local authorities and will engage with private waste operators to press for the implementation of the plan over the next two years.
[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]He is asking local authorities to report to him by 13 October, outlining their plans for the changeover to such a system.
[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]A statement from Mr Cullen said waste collectors must offer households the choice of a tag, pay-per-bag or weight-based system.
[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Such systems are already being operated by a small number of councils.
[/font]

 

[pete]

From indymedia:

Report from High court
by Chekov - WSM & anti-bin tax campaign Wednesday, Sep 24 2003, 1:42pm



Judge refuses city council's application for blanket injunction
Just back from the high court where 12 named protestors were injuncted for blockading bin trucks. Although I wasn't in the courtroom myself, I did talk to several people who had been inside and their interpretation of events was uniform. The 12 undertook not to do the same again and the judge ruled that they had purged their contempt. The city council also sought to make their injunction permanent against blockading. Surprisingly the judge turned this down. There was an extremely noisy protest outside the four courts, some 40-50 people held banners and placards which elicited a cacophony of horns from passing motorists. Judging from the noise, the campaign is more popular than ever; on several occasions I was forced to retreat inside the courthouse to continue converstations with people, you simply couldn't hear anything outside.

The city campaign was fully expecting that the judge would grant the council's application for a blanket injunction against people blockading trucks, but surprisingly judge Donovan refused, saying that the police cannot be 'judge and jury'. This is a great victory for the campaign. It means that the police can't arrest people on blockades, all they can do is take names and seek to injunct those named people to the high court. The implications of this decision are enormous. It represents the first time that the state has backed down in its attack on the bin tax campaign. It means that campaigners can continue to block trucks without fear of immediate arrest; it means that any further legal action against campaigners will require another high-court hearing, which could very quickly clog up the legal system.

Also, this morning we saw environment minister Cullen saying that all charges should be weight related, the first sign of the government backing down from their all out assault against the campaign. They have blinked, time for us to press ahead while they are on the back foot.

The protestors arrested yesterday in Fingal for contravening the blanket injunction that the state granted to Fingal county council last Wednesday are currently before the high court. Their cases have been adjourned until 2pm. Watch this space....

*NOTE: I am not a legal expert, so I could be mistaken in the implications of this ruling. If so could somebody please point it out.

 

[IFF]

i don;'t know whether the Socialist party is happy about this but it might be a good compromise

http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0924/waste01.html

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Environment Minister, Martin Cullen, is proposing that all local authorities switch to a scheme that rewards people who produce less waste.

Mr Cullen has written to all local authorities and will engage with private waste operators to press for the implementation of the plan over the next two years.

He is asking local authorities to report to him by 13 October, outlining their plans for a changeover to such a system.
[/font][/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A statement from Mr Cullen said waste collectors must offer households the choice of a tag, pay-per-bag or weight-based system.

Such systems are already being operated by a small number of councils.

[/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]i'd be happy with such an agreement as it would encourage recycling and is truer to the statement that the polluter pays[/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]also did anyone notice that SF had posters i n the background and the protest on the front of tuesday irish times. i didn't see them there before, so i think they are jumping on the bandwagon made by the socialist party
[/font][/font]

 

[pete]

Best suggestion i've heard so far is everyone (even boggers) gets minimum of X number of collections / number of bags / weight of rubbish collected, with charges for anything extra.

Doesn't contradict the polluter pays principle, but also doesn't address the 'flat rate tax' aspect though - the fees cost someone on a lower income more as a %age of their salary than a "wealthy" person.

And how to agree on a figure for X?

 

[spiritualtramp]

Stop Electricity Charges

STOP ELECTRICITY CHARGES

The Fascist FF/PD government, not content to charge for water and rubbish
collection, is now planning on introducing a "service charge" on electricity.
Since the early 1950s, the ESB has provided the people of Ireland with
unlimited use of electricity.

This is a basic human right - people need light, people need heat. They
can't survive without these, and if McGreedy and Co get their way,
ordinary people will be totally unable to afford electricity. Half the
country will be plunged into darkness, because if you can't pay, you can't use.

The Government claims that "economic efficiency" is the reason for the
change. Sometimes they pretend it's the "polluter pays" principle, and
claim that people are wasting electricity because it's free. We all know
that's nonsense - they only want to charge for electricity so help
enrichen their fat cat friends.

This is an unfair double tax. We already pay for electricity through our
taxes! If local Government needs more money, the National Government
should raise taxes, not allow the Local Authorities to charge their
unfortunate working-class victims!

If we let them, this will be just the the start - soon, we'll have to pay
for phone calls, coal and petrol!

Clearly, "service charges" are nothing to do with the environment or
local government, and everything to do with Right Wing greed. There can
be no other explanation!

 

[pete]

funny

 

[ElderLemon]

Not saying that people on the ground probably don't have genuine grievances about the whole bin thing, but the reason that the protest has escalated to the point it has more to do with Sinn Fein, the Socialist Party and the SWP competing to outdo each other in being leftier-than-thou. The only areas where the Socialist Party are stronger than Sinn Fein are in the North and West county areas, and for all their palaver the SP (or more appropriately, Higgins and Daly) are essentially single-issue candidates and are only as good as their last campaign. Sinn Fein, of course, are a different kettle of fish, with a well-funded, professional and committed organisation, who have a broader appeal. Any ground lost to the Shinners by being seen to vacillate on the issue of the bin charges would not be regained. (Higgins might have whinged publicly about this holiday courtesy of the state, but privately I'd say he's delighted.) As for the SWP, they are completely unelectable but still have the capacity to embarrass Higgins if he was seen to be taking a softer line.

And gosh, is that the local elections next year? What a coincidence...

 

[niallmc]

Not saying that people on the ground probably don't have genuine grievances about the whole bin thing, but the reason that the protest has escalated to the point it has more to do with Sinn Fein, the Socialist Party and the SWP competing to outdo each other in being leftier-than-thou. The only areas where the Socialist Party are stronger than Sinn Fein are in the North and West county areas, and for all their palaver the SP (or more appropriately, Higgins and Daly) are essentially single-issue candidates and are only as good as their last campaign. Sinn Fein, of course, are a different kettle of fish, with a well-funded, professional and committed organisation, who have a broader appeal. Any ground lost to the Shinners by being seen to vacillate on the issue of the bin charges would not be regained. (Higgins might have whinged publicly about this holiday courtesy of the state, but privately I'd say he's delighted.) As for the SWP, they are completely unelectable but still have the capacity to embarrass Higgins if he was seen to be taking a softer line.

And gosh, is that the local elections next year? What a coincidence...

And here was me thinking it was all about the rights and wrongs of the Bin Tax.

 

[ElderLemon]

And here was me thinking it was all about the rights and wrongs of the Bin Tax.

Oh I'm sure it is for the vast majority of protestors - and indeed the protest leaders - but the actions of the leaders in particular are being dictated by the realpolitik of the situation - given that Higgins/SP and SF are in contest for the same vote (leftish working class to crudely pigeonhole it) and that the main bin protests are (forgive if my dub geography is incorrect) in the north and west county, where Daly and Higgins outpolled the respective SF candidates 5,000 to 1,000 and 6,500 to 2,500 votes roughly last year. The SP doesn't exist in any meaningful sense anywhere else and if SF could get their foot in the door (i.e. a councillor elected) if Higgins was perceived to be weak on the issue(s), the SP would be on the slippery slope to oblivion.

Therefore, the political angle is likely to be a major factor in whatever direction the dispute takes.

 

[pete]

ICTU opposed to waste campaigning

(10:18) The Irish Congress of Trade Unions has said it is opposed to the current protest campaign against waste charges.

The General Secretary of Congress, David Begg, has warned that the protests could lead to privatisation and a loss of jobs.

He accused campaigners of leading "ordinary working people into a cul de sac of imprisonment in pursuit of a political objective."

However, the Socialist Party councillor and secretary of the Fingal anti-bin tax campaign, Ruth Coppinger, rejected the stance of ICTU, saying that its leadership is out of touch with its membership on the issue.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0925/waste.html

 

[IFF]

Not saying that people on the ground probably don't have genuine grievances about the whole bin thing, but the reason that the protest has escalated to the point it has more to do with Sinn Fein, the Socialist Party and the SWP competing to outdo each other in being leftier-than-thou. The only areas where the Socialist Party are stronger than Sinn Fein are in the North and West county areas, and for all their palaver the SP (or more appropriately, Higgins and Daly) are essentially single-issue candidates and are only as good as their last campaign. Sinn Fein, of course, are a different kettle of fish, with a well-funded, professional and committed organisation, who have a broader appeal. Any ground lost to the Shinners by being seen to vacillate on the issue of the bin charges would not be regained. (Higgins might have whinged publicly about this holiday courtesy of the state, but privately I'd say he's delighted.) As for the SWP, they are completely unelectable but still have the capacity to embarrass Higgins if he was seen to be taking a softer line.

And gosh, is that the local elections next year? What a coincidence...

interestingly enough, the Socialist party have been involved witht eh bin tax situation for many years now, on tuesday was the first time i heard of the Sf being involved. It's called jumping on a bandwagon.

Also the socialist party were the leaders in the campaign not to pay for water that comes from the taps and they won. I didn't see the SF taking a pro active approach in either cam paign.

and if you visit http://www.socialistparty.net/ you would realise that the socialist party wer enot just a one issue party.

Also i bet the IRA will do a token decommishioning just before the EU and county council elections to fool all those idiots who are easily swayed

 

[IFF]

maybe if bertie want's Joe higgins out of the dail for this, maybe he should also be considering wanting GV Wright out of the dail for http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0925/wrightgv.html

but then again GV Wright is probably exempt due to his membership of Fianna Fail

also it should be noted of the two FF Dublin North TD's, one (Glennon) opnelywant Higgins kicked out of the Dail, the other has broken the drink driving laws

I know dublin west is Higgin's constituency but Dublin Noprth should be noted as the constituency Clare Daly stood in in the general election when she was eliminated in the final round by a FF cnadidate