Bintifada (1 Viewer)

[pete]

lost for fucking words

Higgins case matter for Oireachtas says Ahern


The Taoiseach has said any censure of Socialist Party TD, Joe Higgins, who was sent to jail on Friday for breaching High Court injunctions was a matter for the Oireachtas.
Mr Ahern said the Dáil had already passed a motion to the effect that any breach of a court order by a TD was a serious offence.

Asked why he had called for Tony Gregory's release when he was jailed in the 1980s for supporting the Moore Street traders, Mr Ahern said ‘ah, but he's a nice guy.’

Higgins case matter for Oireachtas says Ahern - RTÉ News

 

[admin]

http://www.socialistparty.net/bintax/

 

[kstop]

I accept that people cannot be allowed to break the law and that they will have to pay fines but what happened in this case was unreasonable. Although this matter has received much publicity, the point has been missed, namely, why Deputy Gregory decided to go to jail.

...

Deputy Gregory refused to sign a bond that he would not protest for the next six months. This matter that has been debated for the last 30 years will be solved in the next two months and thus Deputy Gregory would not have been able to speak on a matter about which he has lobbied for many years, long before he has elected to Dublin Corporation in 1979 or to this House in 1982. That is why he did not sign the bond.

...

I would not be protesting on behalf of Deputy Gregory if he had not assured me that the allegation that he had kicked a policeman is totally unfounded. I must accept his word on that so I willingly accept that assurance.

In one case, a trumped up charge was being used to silence an independent TD attempting to campaign for his constituents' basic rights through peaceful protest. In the other, Joe Higgins did his best to break the law through non-peaceful protest and was duly arrested and jailed. There's no way you could even begin to compare the careers or characters of the two men. I'm as sick of this government, and of Bertie, as anyone else, but this quote is nothing to get all excited about.

Plus you could argue that opposition back benchers have slightly more freedom than Taoiseachs to register that kind of protest.

 

[pete]

Slight misrepresentation of the facts there - Joe Higgins wasn't locked up for "non-peaceful protest" - he was locked up for choosing to ignore a court order.

Before jailing the politicians, Mr Justice Iarlfhlaith O'Neill said he appreciated that Joe Higgins and Clare Daly breached court orders as part of a political campaign and that their motivation was sincere.

But he said they had been engaged in a deliberate and calculated contempt of the law and the authority of the court. He said this was regrettable and reprehensible in Mr Higgins' case as he was a member of the Dáil.

As he was taken away, Mr Higgins said his committal to prison was an outrage.

Before lunch, Mr Justice Iarfhlaith O'Neill asked Deputy Higgins and Councillor Daly whether or not they would comply with a High Court order preventing them from obstructing waste collection in Fingal.

The Dublin West TD said he could not abandon the communities he represented and Councillor Daly said she had no alternative but to continue the protests.

Joe Higgins and Clare Daly got up on Friday morning and went out to (peacefully!) protest, knowing full well they were probably going to be locked up by teatime. I don't know if I'd have the balls to do the same.

 

[broken arm]

 

[pete]

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=61208

 

[egg_]

I think it's fucking pathetic that the most talked-about grassroots movement in the country at the moment is a protest against paying €150 a year to get your bins collected.

 

[LMD64]

...and you know the gas thing about it? Fingal County Council is just about the only area left in Ireland (barring maybe dun laoghaire) that doesn't have to pay to get their bins collected.
The unfortunate redneck feckers living down the country have for years had to pay private bin collectors contracted by the local authorities. That, on top of having to live like a muck savage, is a hard cross to bear.

My point being, the socialist party don't really give that much of a toss as to whether the bins are taxed or not (although it does fall roughly within their political scope/agenda). Can you say 'upcoming-election' and 'some-people-will-do-anything-for-a-vote'?

 

[pete]

I think it's fucking pathetic that the most talked-about grassroots movement in the country at the moment is a protest against paying €150 a year to get your bins collected.

It's a start.

And it's more than €150.

And it's not "paying for it" - it's "paying for it twice"

And it's not even the paying for it - it's the how much will it be after privatisation.

And it's not even the bins - it's the fact that my TD is locked up in the pokey for 30 days, but Lawlor only gets a week.

It's lots of things.

 

[LMD64]

what do you mean, paying twice?
agreed about privatisation, though, and lawlor getting just a week.

fuck it, at least people are getting interested in what's going on in their area. local politics and all that. course, i haven't a clue who my local td is, buh.

 

[Pantone247]

fuck it, at least people are getting interested in what's going on in their area. local politics and all that. course, i haven't a clue who my local td is, buh.

http://www.irlgov.ie/oireachtas/Members-29th-Dail/constituencies/default.html

find out there

I think it's stupid people suddenly getting there back up over the bin charges, like someone said its been going down in the country for years, and for two or three years now where I live in Drumcondra.

Up until last week I wouldn't have cared, but as Pete pointed out sending to people to jail for a peaceful protesting for a month is crazy and wrong and watchout for the thought police.

Also Micheal Martin is the dirtiest little Gestapo fuck pig ever.

 

[pete]

what do you mean, paying twice?

OK Bottom line - Whatever about the simple folk of the land, I've never had to directly pay someone to have my bins collected before. I pay plenty of direct taxes though - which I don't really have a problem with - but these are taxes that I can only assume went (in part) to pay for the provision of certain services... like bin collection. The fact that you can now claim tax relief on payments for services would seem to back this up.

Problem is this tax relief is capped at €195 for all service charges if you are part of a tag purchase scheme with a council or private contractor. Larger households will most likeley need to put out a bin every week - €5 * 52 = €260. What about when the bin charges inevitably go up? Or after privatisation? Or *other* services we take for granted suddenly become chargeable?

But like I said - It's not just about the money.

 

[egg_]

And it's not "paying for it" - it's "paying for it twice"

I don't get this. You pay for loads of things twice - income tax, VAT, road tax

I can appreciate that it would be a good idea that to pay tax into one central fund, and then that central fund would pay for all public services like education, bin collection, water supply, healthcare ... but that's not what happens, and part of the reason it doesn't happen is that there'd be even bigger protests if the govt tried to centralise the tax system, cos the rates of income tax would go through the roof

Y'know, in general I'd be against The Government, but this thing strikes me as daft - if the bin tax is not brought in, the tax money used to pay for bin collection is either going to be raised in some other way, or is going to be witheld from some other thing

 

[pete]

i hear what you're saying.... but where's the money been coming from up until now? If not from existing taxation cash money (see: tax relief) then where?

 

[pete]

ok i have to go pretend to do some work - don't you be thinking that i'm letting you get the last word in or anything silly like that.

I'll see you boys and girls up at the Gardens Of Remembrance at 7.30pm tonight, yeah? We can sort this out mano-a-mano.

Here whatever happened to Mano? From Chromatic Death and Moral Crusade? Hrmmm i think he turned into Brendan Kilkenny....

 

[billygannon]

i hear what you're saying.... but where's the money been coming from up until now? If not from existing taxation cash money (see: tax relief) then where?

Dot-coms!

Might be there at 7.30.... could be some mad stuff happening tonight!

 

[egg_]

as Pete pointed out sending to people to jail for a peaceful protesting for a month is crazy and wrong

I fucking totally agree with this, but that's not a bin tax issue, is it? Is a problem with the whole legal structure of the state

Pete, obviously the money has been coming from the central tax fund up until now, but seeing as that's greatly diminshed these days cos incomes are down, the govt has to get the money from somewhere else. It'd be pretty mad to raise the tax rate for everyone in the country in order to pay the Fingal binmen, when the culshies are already paying for their own binmen

 

[pete]

maybe if there was 100% tax relief for all service charges i might be more inclined to agree. but because the govt. can see privatisation down the road, and know they'll have no control over fees, that's never going to happen, is it?

 

[dudley]

you were so drunk on friday, pete

 

[Pantone247]

I wouldn't mind paying bin tax if they introduced some sort of recycling, green box, scheme. One collection for waste, another for glass etc, etc, etc