agressor going to Dublin (2 Viewers)

[D0njo]

thanks dunchee, you're the only one who's making any sense

 

[the strange guy]

I'm not going to argue about whether or not sexual violence is an individual act. We could sit here debating over our cappuccinos about whether or not the influence of society/TV/Heavy Metal has on sexual violence all day and it will get us nowhere. Or at least we could start another thread about it.

I understand what you're saying, the scene/community needs to be involved otherwise what's the point of its existence? Of course there needs to be a group stance. I was referring to those people who seem to take no side ("Oh I dunno", "It's none of my business", "I wasn't there", "He seems alright to me", "I heard he hit her first, so...." ) until a group decision is made.

This doesn't only apply to the punk scene of course. I've seen it happen with other groups of friends in a situation that was a lot closer to home. Maybe that's what's got me riled up about this.

Also the structure of the hand waving meeting from a few years back was a joke. I admit, I didn't attend it, but if half of what I heard was true then... sweet mother of jesus.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, yes; there needs to be group discussion. That's why we're here. But having your own idea about what to do about it is necessary too. It doesn't have to correlate with the group idea. If everyone decides to beat the shit out of a rapist, it doesn't mean you have to join in. If everyone decides to sit on their arse, stick their fingers in their ears and knock back flagons, then by all means, hunt the fucker down.

I'm not just referring to 'the incident' a few years back; neither am I just referring to Piotra and Angela. There's been other things that have happened over the last few years that people just aren't willing to talk about. We're meant to be punk rockers/outspoken individuals for fuck's sake and some things are still taboo until people hear what the 'group decision' is. It's upsetting.

 

[the strange guy]

Just to clarify again... (oh to have an editing system that lasts longer than 10 mins!)

I wasn't just talking about sexual violence or violence against women. I'm talking about all sorts of issues.

Sometimes sides need to be taken. And sometimes sides don't need to be taken. Sometimes all that needs to be done is to listen and to offer support. Sometimes you've got to wade into the fray and do what you feel is right.

A lot of the time people feel let down by their mates because they just don't want to be 'involved'. The person with the problem feels like they don't have any support; that there's nobody to talk to.

Though Dunchee is right, general discussion and overt general consensus is relatively rare. I guess it was an exaggeration on my part to suggest otherwise. What I'm trying to say is that people observe their mates to see how they're handling a situation. "Jonny Jointhead seems to be staying out of this argument, so I will too." People make an unspoken decision to stay out of conflict, to go with the flow, to hope it all goes away. This is especially true when people happen to be friends with both parties.

There are still occasions where a 'meeting' is called. As I admitted, it's rare, but it happens. It's these meetings that I find ridiculous; it's almost like they're arranged because people feel guilty about doing nothing. "Oh I didn't do anything, but I went to the meeting". How is this kind of 'thinking en-masse' different from the society everyone seems to hate so much. Grow your own brains!

People just don't want anything to interfere with their weekend drinking sessions. Rocking the boat is cool only when it involves the government, big businesses and the cops, not when it's in your own back yard, so to speak.

It's your own actions and what you feel should be done is important and not what anybody else is doing. It's about being there for your mates or for those that have been treated unjustly, regardless of what everybody else is doing or not doing.

 

[Carlow Punks!]

Good observations Oly,
but why didn't you just say that from the beginning

or should people have been expected to interpret all that from "ball-less pussies" ?

I guess throw away insults are okay on the net when your not talking about serious issues but they tend to be distracting otherwise, and only self-serving really (they have an effect onto the giver as well, ie: by me saying your ball-less it implies I have more integrity or am trve-er if you will, in the same manner saying someone is a wierdo implies I am normal, that some one is PC that I am straight-talking etc etc.) so I generally question when people try use them to "push buttons" as its usually they're own buttons they want to push.

Anyway good points about talking often replacing action while still making people feel like they are doing stuff.

 

[São Paulo Punk]

Seeing as the 'scene' or the 'punks' is not a specific group or organisation, but a loose affiliation of organisations (gig collectives, seomra spraoi, RAG etc...) individuals and smaller social circles, I think that this letter serves as a good 'heads-up' for people whose lives either rotate around or are connected to the 'scene'/'punks', as the perpetrator of violence will most likely gravitate towards this social network.

I think that actions will be taken simply because the smaller 'organised' groups within the 'scene' have regular meetings to discuss their usual business amongst other stuff and so they will formulate their own policies in relation to the issue. This seems like the most obvious outcome to me anyway.

However, Id ask these questions...

Small question:
If this dude is rejected and barred from the 'scene', is the problem of violence simply being ignored as opposed to being tackled constructively?

Medium sized question:
Does anyone give a fuck if this guy does the same again as long as it doesn't infringe on the cosy anarcho-ghetto that we've constructed for ourselves, where we can live free from the threats of violence?

The big question:
Do we want to challenge violent behaviour, or distance ourselves from it?

 

[São Paulo Punk]

Owensie Soc. Pol. says:

Seeing as the 'scene' or the 'punks' is not a specific group or organisation, but a loose affiliation of organisations (gig collectives, seomra spraoi, RAG etc...) individuals and smaller social circles, I think that this letter serves as a good 'heads-up' for people whose lives either rotate around or are connected to the 'scene'/'punks', as the perpetrator of violence will most likely gravitate towards this social network.

I think that actions will be taken simply because the smaller 'organised' groups within the 'scene' have regular meetings to discuss their usual business amongst other stuff and so they will formulate their own policies in relation to the issue. This seems like the most obvious outcome to me anyway.

However, Id ask these questions...

Small question:
If this dude is rejected and barred from the 'scene', is the problem of violence simply being ignored as opposed to being tackled constructively?

Medium sized question:
Does anyone give a fuck if this guy does the same again as long as it doesn't infringe on the cosy anarcho-ghetto that we've constructed for ourselves, where we can live free from the threats of violence?

The big question:
Do we want to challenge violent behaviour, or distance ourselves from it?

 

[São Paulo Punk]

Doh! Posted it twice.

Also, I was just wondering: When everone else saw the title of this thread did they intitially think that some band called 'agressor' were coming over, and feel bad cause they didnt recognise the name or knew who they were?

 

[the strange guy]

It's been two days now.
See?
Ball-less pussies.

 

[D0njo]

well, i thought that it seemed like a good band name, then had a good laugh when i found it was actually about a polish guy beating up his lady..

creating conflict in such a small set of social groupings usually leads to ostracism of the person with conflicting ideas by the larger groups, sometimes people dont want to express their opinion for this reason.

 

[therealjohnny]

When everone else saw the title of this thread did they intitially think that some band called 'agressor' were coming over,

yes

and feel bad cause they didnt recognise the name or knew who they were?

no,I'm well used to be hopelessly out of touch with the young people

 

[Carlow Punks!]

It's been two days now.
See?
Ball-less pussies.

here's a wild theory, but run with it for a second and you'll see where I'm heading with it

Maybe people are far less interesting in impressing you with their worth then you seem to be constantly with everyone on this forum (or call it 'provoking', 'pushing-buttons', whatever it all amounts to a pissing contest in the end)

...I mean are you not on holidays or something?

 

[the strange guy]

Of course nobody is interested in 'impressing me'.
But here's another wild theory.

Very few people here give a shit about *doing anything* about this Piotra/Angela situation. This is a reflection of the apathetic culture in the scene whenever it comes to doing anything that doesn't involve drinking or fucking rocks at pigs.
Everything they pretend to stand for is bullshit unless they stand up now.
I think it's hilarious that these 'anarchists' and 'punx' are mere caricatures of what they think they are. They're nothing of the sort.
'Normal people' have more stones than most of the people here.

Yeh, I'm on holiday. When you're stuck in cities for days on end you tend to end up in internet cafes buzzed to the tits on caffeine

 

[Carlow Punks!]

Very few people here give a shit about *doing anything* about this Piotra/Angela situation. This is a reflection of the apathetic culture in the scene whenever it comes to doing anything that doesn't involve drinking or fucking rocks at pigs.
Everything they pretend to stand for is bullshit unless they stand up now.
I think it's hilarious that these 'anarchists' and 'punx' are mere caricatures of what they think they are. They're nothing of the sort.
'Normal people' have more stones than most of the people here.

100% agree and have for a long long time, but it doesn't get on my tits anymore. I'm friends with who I'm friends with, and posing / black & white politics/ apathy of everybody else couldn't matter a fuck to my life.

Since it seems such a burning issue for you.. are you only copping onto this stuff about most of the punks/anarchists now or wha' ?

 

[the strange guy]

Fuck's sake man, I've been hating on the punx since I started hanging out with them in the Chinaman in 1995; especially you, Ciaran.

Seriously though, I've plenty of burning issues! This thread was a good place to vent one of them. You're right, my mates are my mates and I love them all to bits regardless. It's like any loving relationship - it can feel fantastic after you clear the air even though you know full well that the other party isn't listening, doesn't care and won't change.

 

[Carlow Punks!]

Fuck's sake man, I've been hating on the punx since I started hanging out with them in the Chinaman in 1995; especially you, Ciaran.

As far as I remember I felt a lot of the 'punks' (esp. the Chinaman, studs and mohawk, punks) hated me, so it's all a complex web really

It's like any loving relationship - it can feel fantastic after you clear the air even though you know full well that the other party isn't listening, doesn't care and won't change.

Yeah, I've heard going travelling with someone long-term can be intense...

 

[São Paulo Punk]

As far as I remember I felt a lot of the 'punks' (esp. the Chinaman, studs and mohawk, punks) hated me, so it's all a complex web really

Well it wasn't called 'The Spiders Web' for nothing, was it?

 

[Carlow Punks!]

Well it wasn't called 'The Spiders Web' for nothing, was it?

I shall bring a petition before the highest authority in the land to ensure that you are banned from Thumped for that lame joke, sir!

 

[mazzyianne]

I haven't read this since the first few posts, afraid of what I'll find...
Anyway, this guy showed up to the Revolt Video launch on Friday, people talked to him, he was told he wouldn't be allowed into the gig.
He didn't seem too surprised.
Most people were drinking outside but once word got around no one talked to him so he left pretty soon after.
He was also at the Terence Wheelock demo on Saturday but not much could be done about that I guess.

 

[Janer]

Wow!