1st day at primary school (2 Viewers)

[snakybus]

Egg, I don't get what you're driving at. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't teach students to be creative, because 90% of them are gonna end up working as computer programmers anyway, so what's the point, why disappoint them? Sounds pretty cynical to me. I think there's no doubt that education in this country has been geared towards learning in a really non-creative way, and purposing kids towards a life in industry or at the very least something that supports industry. I know this from my own job, which is all about educating kids--trying to suggest covering material in a creative way is considered "new-agey", "American bullshit" and "faffy shit" (actual words used). Pretty depressing coming from education professionals.

 

[ann post]

When? Both my parents' experience of school seems to have been mostly rote learning. Even when I was doing physics in UCD in the early 90s there was an awful lot of rote learning going on.

was just thinking there, its hard to call that with the parental generation - most kids didnt go to uni at that time in ireland, they would go to school to get the three R's, leave quite young and then work on the farm or whatever the family trade was, so a lot of thier education was hands-on home schooling administered by parents and family or neighbours. Problem solving was an inbuilt necessicty relating to the economics of the household rather then a piece of coursework.

 

[Vinnie]

I wanted to study ballet in primary school but I was already two years into my binman studies and the choice was between Advanced Binmanology and ballet so I had to make a practical decision. I've always secretly regretted not being brave enough to pursue my dream.

 

[ann post]

you could have bin something.

 

[sweetoblivion]

It's not just school that counts, it's what you do with your kids outside of school that counts too. Painting, reading, writing, playing games, singing, kicking a football around etc - that's where a lot of kids learn what they're into, not just in school. If they're encouraged at home to have fun hobbies then they'll learn a lot too Don't really think that kids should spend half their time after school being ferried too and from classes though - just playing with paints and some sheets of paper can be enough to spark creativity.

 

[GO]

It's not just school that counts, it's what you do with your kids outside of school that counts too. Painting, reading, writing, playing games, singing, kicking a football around etc - that's where a lot of kids learn what they're into, not just in school. If they're encouraged at home to have fun hobbies then they'll learn a lot too Don't really think that kids should spend half their time after school being ferried too and from classes though - just playing with paints and some sheets of paper can be enough to spark creativity.

Thats parenting from the school of Gaz.

Binman is one of the greatest jobs going btw...Fresh air,exercise,good money,job security,riding auld wans,tips at xmas,show up drunk,in the pub by lunch.....I could go on.

 

[GO]

....getting the lads to cover for you when you pull a sicky,sneaky games of poker in the depot,finding cool shit,riding a few more auld wans..........

 

[egg_]

Egg, I don't get what you're driving at. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't teach students to be creative, because 90% of them are gonna end up working as computer programmers anyway, so what's the point, why disappoint them?

Creativity is actually pretty important in programming, believe it or not, if you're going to be any good at it

But mostly what I'm trying to say is if "fostering creativity in schools" is just another way of saying we want to teach kids how to solve complex problems in original ways then of course I'm all for it because I'd like my kids to be able to do that as it'll be a useful life skill. That's not really the message I'm getting from Ken Robinsons's talk though which, to me, comes across like a self-help book claiming that Happiness is possible for everyone if we all can only get in touch with our amazing inner creative child. Maybe that's not what he's saying at all, and I'm just reacting against hand-waving academics who make a living by saying whatever comes into their heads, because I hate my job and I'm jealous ... are other people getting that from his talk at all?

 

[broken arm]

That's not really the message I'm getting from Ken Robinsons's talk though which, to me, comes across like a self-help book claiming that Happiness is possible for everyone if we all can only get in touch with our amazing inner creative child.

That's not what he's on about. He was a professor and now spends his time working with people who run universites and schools, businesses and policy makers.

Sir Ken Robinson (born Liverpool 4 March 1950) is the son of James and Ethel Robinson. He is an internationally recognized leader in the development of innovation and human resources. He has worked with national governments in Europe and Asia, with international agencies, Fortune 500 companies, national and state education systems, non-profit corporations and some of the world’s leading cultural organizations. They include the Royal Shakespeare Company, Sir Paul McCartney’s Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts, the Royal Ballet, the Hong Kong Academy for Performing Arts, the European Commission, UNESCO, the Council of Europe, the J Paul Getty Trust and the Education Commission of the States. From 1989 - 2001, he was Professor of Arts Education at the University of Warwick.

He has taken advisory roles for a wide range of national and international bodies. These include:

• The Education Commission of the States
• The Girl Scouts of America
• UNESCO
• The Arts Council of England
• The national inquiry on The Arts and Disabled People, chaired by Sir Richard Attenborough, and the Carnegie Council
• Chief Examiner, Paul McCartney’s Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts
• Member of the UK Council for Dance Education and Training (CDET)
• Board of the Birmingham Royal Ballet, Chairman of the Education Committee
• Governor, Central School of Speech and Drama
• Oklahoma Creativity Project
• Advisory Council of the Independent Television Commission
• Council for National Academic Awards
• Hong Kong Council for Academic Accreditation
• IBM Foundation
• New York International Arts Festival
• Royal Shakespeare Company

Other advisory and consultancy roles have included:

• The Blue Man Group
• The National Foundation for Educational Research
• The British American Arts Association
• The British Council
• The Royal Court Theatre
• The Young Vic
• The South Bank Centre
• The Design Council
• The Royal Academy
• The National Theatre
• The Royal Ballet

 

[egg_]

That's not what he's on about. He was a professor and now spends his time working with people who run universites and schools, businesses and policy makers.

I'm still suspicious of him. Working with them on what?

 

[MDR]

This strikes me as one of those topics without boundaries that could bounce around for millennia on the definitional problems alone - "what do you mean by creativity!"

I expect a school to give a child a good grounding in the basics of numeracy and literacy; to provide them with an interest in learning; and to ensure that they know some of the common trivia that passes for education in this country. Most of all I hope it demystifies brainyness, so that the child can develop confidence in their own intellectual ability, and its limits. In terms of creativity, I think the best thing you can do for a child is to be enthusiastic and to encourage them to develop whatever nascent interests they have, no matter how stupid.

In terms of relating education to the working world, I think most of our generation is realising that even though we all feel undereducated, we're usually way overeducated for our jobs which seldom require that we dig deeply into our creativity. Mark my words people: what you need in this world above creativity is stamina. Sheer stamina.

 

[broken arm]

I'm still suspicious of him. Working with them on what?

helping them to understand how they can reform education and human resources to make it better.

 

[broken arm]

This strikes me as one of those topics without boundaries that could bounce around for millennia on the definitional problems alone - "what do you mean by creativity!"

yea it's a bit mad really but there is a large amount of work being done by organisations like the European Commission, OECD, NESTA etc trying to better understand how you encourage/measure creativity. Their agenda is the development of the "creative industries" but there is lots of interesting research and understanding being developed.

It just happens that this year is the European year of Creativity and Innovation - http://create2009.europa.eu/ - they picked a bad time what with the recession and all....

 

[Vinnie]

My secondary school was a bizarre hybrid of stodgy po-faced text book regurgitation and some incredibly exhilarating english classes with the most wonderful teacher. We truly penetrated the soul of literature and even formed a society where we would sneak out to a cave late at night and read each other poetry and short stories - of our own or somebody else's creation. We had never felt so alive and excited by education. But then Neil took the lead role in a local theatre production against the strict orders of his Father and tragically ended up comitting suicide. So you hippes can tout creativity in our education system but while you're at it you might as well take a load of teenagers out the back and shoot them yourself.

 

[Sweetie]

I had 29 little ones starting school today (in my class).

We had lots of fun and they all went home smiling.

I had fun too, but now I'm wrecked!

Hope all your wee ones had a good experience.

 

[MDR]

My secondary school was a bizarre hybrid of stodgy po-faced text book regurgitation and some incredibly exhilarating english classes with the most wonderful teacher. We truly penetrated the soul of literature and even formed a society where we would sneak out to a cave late at night and read each other poetry and short stories - of our own or somebody else's creation. We had never felt so alive and excited by education. But then Neil took the lead role in a local theatre production against the strict orders of his Father and tragically ended up comitting suicide. So you hippes can tout creativity in our education system but while you're at it you might as well take a load of teenagers out the back and shoot them yourself.

I saw a film like that except instead of commiting suicide, the kid became a binman.

 

[billygannon]

... Mark my words people: what you need in this world above creativity is stamina. Sheer stamina.

Or coffee

 

[broken arm]

has the "ireland as a society to learn by rote being good as a repository for external capital and replicator of other's ideas" debate been had yet?

 

[ann post]

Mark my words people: what you need in this world above creativity is stamina. Sheer stamina.

wouldnt really disagree with you, but might add that if people were more creative, they might figure out how to do things faster, more efficiently or how to make thier environment nicer without effecting the rate of shit getting done, then the problem becomes convincing superiors of better ways to do things, of course if they'd all been trained in creative cognition then it would be normal to have ideas.

has the "ireland as a society to learn by rote being good as a repository for external capital and replicator of other's ideas" debate been had yet?

thats a bit heavy for the first day at primary school.

 

[egg_]

wouldnt really disagree with you, but might add that if people were more creative, they might figure out how to do things faster, more efficiently or how to make thier environment nicer without effecting the rate of shit getting done

In my work I come across similar problems to solve over and over again. I don't really get any quicker at solving them, because I tend to come up with a new solution each time - gets boring otherwise. Drives my "superiors" mad. Creativity isn't always good for the bottom line