1st day at primary school (4 Viewers)

[broken arm]

go to 3.45 for a story related to the round/square house controversy.

 

[Wobbler]

It's called big school.

 

[lemonbravo]

holy shit that makes me mad... the teacher is so fundamentally wrong.

you should watch this video - I heard Ken speak in London a few weeks ago and I could have listened to him for days. I am trying to read his book "Element" at the moment.

he's brimming with such deadly stories

YouTube - Sir Ken Robinson: Do schools kill creativity?

pretty cool.

 

[egg_]

I think Ken Robinson is full of shit. What is "creativity"? It's just a vague thing that everyone can agree is Good. This whole speech hangs on the stupid anecdote about his friend who was a natural dancer who became a prima ballerina and subsequently ran her own ballet company. How many ballet company directors are there for each prima ballerina? How many ballerinas are there for each prima ballerina? How many kids crazy about ballet actually become professional ballerinas at all?

I can't believe this man has made a career out of blathering on like this. "Ooooh let's not kill children's precious creativity". No matter how creative everyone is, we're still going to need a thousand dustmen and postmen and shop assistants and truck drivers for every prima ballerina (until we've robots to do all the menial work, at least)

 

[Anthony]

Unit number 2 started school today. In till noon for weeks! What?

 

[billygannon]

I can't believe this man has made a career out of blathering on like this. "Ooooh let's not kill children's precious creativity". No matter how creative everyone is, we're still going to need a thousand dustmen and postmen and shop assistants and truck drivers for every prima ballerina (until we've robots to do all the menial work, at least)

It must be said that if postmen and dustmen were prima ballerinas, it would make for more entertaining mornings on housing estates up and down the land.

 

[broken arm]

I think Ken Robinson is full of shit. What is "creativity"? It's just a vague thing that everyone can agree is Good. This whole speech hangs on the stupid anecdote about his friend who was a natural dancer who became a prima ballerina and subsequently ran her own ballet company. How many ballet company directors are there for each prima ballerina? How many ballerinas are there for each prima ballerina? How many kids crazy about ballet actually become professional ballerinas at all?

I can't believe this man has made a career out of blathering on like this. "Ooooh let's not kill children's precious creativity". No matter how creative everyone is, we're still going to need a thousand dustmen and postmen and shop assistants and truck drivers for every prima ballerina (until we've robots to do all the menial work, at least)

I 100% disagree. Creativity isn't just about the arts and it isn't about specific jobs i.e. dustmen v.s. ballerinas. It is about having the ability to percieve issues from different perspectives and being able to solve complex problems.

The ballerina anecdote was one of dozens from a book he wrote. The issue wasn't about ballet. It was a incapacity of the education system and her educators to comprehend that she may be different.

Some countries have taken a direct approach to building creativity into the school system/curriculum. Ireland hasn't taken this approach and maybe, partly at least, we're all a product of that. Most of the studies on these countries show that they are producing more creative and innovative people/industries.

There are plenty of innovative schools and universities outside of ireland that are challenging the status quo and improving creativity through different ways of teaching e.g.

some universities allowing the student to help design the curriculum to help improve decision-making, critical thinking, risk-taking and enquiry skills.

some universities merging creative programmes with the STEM subjects to produce more rounded and creative scientists and engineers.

some primary schools taking an active approach to business studies, team working and organisational skills by getting kids to set up businesses around the topics they are learning

 

[Froog]

what if dustmen were ballerinas aswell? dancing aorund the gaff emptying our bins. that would be pretty cool and keep everyone happy.

 

[frambosenshmak]

I 100% disagree. Creativity isn't just about the arts and it isn't about specific jobs i.e. dustmen v.s. ballerinas. It is about having the ability to percieve issues from different perspectives and being able to solve complex problems.


some primary schools taking an active approach to business studies, team working and organisational skills by getting kids to set up businesses around the topics they are learning

But dustmen and ballerinas can solve complex problems - ie if the bin contents went into the back of the truck and then the mechanical squisher (yep, the technical term for it) somehow tosses it out on the road while the truck drives away spreading it all over the street then the binman can deduce a)its not his problem/job to stop and clean it up as he didnt create it and b) if he is pinned with deduction a) he'll call his union rep, get a strike going and never collect the complainants bins ever again.
ballerinas, well, not many people could even perceive bending the ways they do let alone considering attempting it and the ability to survive on evian, a cigarette and some peas every two days is testament to their job security problem solving skills


i remember the business studies class in my school setting up their own tuck shop business encouraged by the teacher to put their learning into practise of running and growing a business. The business had all the hallmarks of Irish business culture that we've come to know so well in the last year - rapid success, huge profits, increased buying, illegal 'distribution' of funds, huge drop off in demand, cooking the books, stealing, in fighting and 'nominating' a fall guy. It lasted all of 8 months.


I think creativity is highly subjective - every parent thinks their little darling is the most creative genius under the sun - and as such will always be pigeonholed by society into titles. Lying is creative thinking at work yet we admonish that, yet some openly flaunt it as part of their success (eg salespeople, filmmakers) How about stealing? (bankers, ad creatives) Cheating? (politicians, sportsmen & women). Can we truly disseminate one part of creativity from the other and still call it that when we can see clear dividing lines in society of which parts of creative thinking are openly encouraged in business and politics compared with those employed by art and design? They both stem from creative thinking but are honed in different ways and to different degrees by our accepted cultural norms of job descriptions - ie you are banker you behave this way or you're a failure, you are artist you work this way or fade into obscurity. Sure we have a few who buck that trend and are all the more successful because of it, but talent does become a factor in that matter.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain talent and creativity in a manner that the dimwits in the dept of education can understand. hard to speak to someone about a part of their mind they buried long ago. Although that wonderful scene from ratatouille comes to mind when the food critic tastes the exquiste nostalgia of his youth in a homely cooked meal.

 

[Reets]

Do schools not always start on september 1st?

Balls, Parental Fail!

 

[broken arm]

i remember the business studies class in my school setting up their own tuck shop business encouraged by the teacher to put their learning into practise of running and growing a business.

There is a primary school in Copenhagen (can't remember the name just yet) that has a system where the food eaten during lunch is made by the home economics students and sold by the "business" students. The kids have responsibility over the cash flow and all the sundry activities.

I think creativity is highly subjective -

I'm still waiting for someone to explain talent and creativity in a manner that the dimwits in the dept of education can understand.

It can be seen as subjective but there is a huge amount of research around creativity, metrics for creativity and different models of creative education/business.

I wrote a paper a few months back on the interface between creativity, innovation and design (in the context of sustainable development)

here is a snippet

Creativity is regarded as one of the more enigmatic, compelling and little understood aspects of human thinking. De Bono [15] suggested that creative thinking is the ability to use a variety of unconventional methods to explore numerous innovative solutions. Csikszentmihalyi [16] suggested that creativity is the ability to communicate extraordinary thoughts, critically affect perception of reality and to develop original inventions. Thinking creatively involves perceiving situations from new perspectives and generating novel ideas for solving complex problems [17]. Florida [18] defined three different ‘types’ of creativity; technological creativity (invention), economic creativity (entrepreneurship) and artistic/cultural creativity. These different dimensions of creativity are interrelated and mutually reinforcing.

Creativity is a pre-requisite for innovation and design. Swann and Birke [19] developed three different models positively linking creativity and design to innovation (Figure 1). In these models they differentiated between the linear (red line), interactive (blue line) and interactive in the context of a “creative climate” (dashed line). The interactive model displays a greater degree of complexity than the linear model by incorporating feedback loops that occur in innovation. Through the interactive model, Swann and Birke also emphasise the importance of design. The final model that incorporates the “creative climate” is the most complete model. It has been argued that “creative climate” or creative culture is the single most important influence on the innovative potential of the company. Zaltman (in [20]) suggests that “… the daily environment provided by a firm is the single most important determinant of innovative thinking among its personnel. An effective intervention in that environment is far more productive than efforts to intervene in the individual manager’s thinking.”

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Figure 1: linking design innovation and creativity - adapted from Swann and Birke 2005 [19]

In the context of this paper, creativity and design play a leading role in enhancing the competitiveness of business and regions. This role can be viewed through the design of new products and services to their production, marketing and distribution. The product design industry covers a very broad group of activities but is a subset of the design and creative industries. The design industries include interior, product, packaging, furniture, web and digital media, graphic, spatial, apparel, fashion and service design. In general, product designers are trained in trans-disciplinary environments incorporating notably engineering, visual arts, ergonomics, marketing, management, entrepreneurship and business. Designers are uniquely positioned to combine multidisciplinary talents of aesthetics, engineering and physical sciences while incorporating an appreciation of culture, values and preferences of clients and consumers of their products.

Design is often the link between technology, creativity, business and the user (Figure 2). The role of design, as a complementary asset for competitiveness, in SMEs is especially important in the context of mature consumer markets where technological innovations only gain marginal returns. In these markets, functional and aesthetic innovations play a greater role. Design becomes a mechanism by which the intangible assets of products and services such as lifestyle, behaviours, culture, gender and needs can be considered. Therefore, in the context of sector competition based on non-price characteristics, the command of a greater array of complimentary assets can allow design-led businesses to innovate and remain competitive.

 

[egg_]

It is about having the ability to percieve issues from different perspectives and being able to solve complex problems.

I'd be all for this, of course. Teaching kids to think around complex problems and therefore solve them will give those kids a competitive advantage in the marketplace, and if a country teaches its kids in this way then that country's economy may out-compete others. What it won't do is change the power structure of society. "Creativity" for kids sounds lovely, but it won't change the fact that only a few of them will be winners and most will be losers.

Maybe I'm misreading Ken Robinson's tone, but the talk seems to me to be saying that if we could re-engineer education to encourage creativity then we'll all find personal fulfillment

 

[egg_]

There is a primary school in Copenhagen (can't remember the name just yet) that has a system where the food eaten during lunch is made by the home economics students and sold by the "business" students. The kids have responsibility over the cash flow and all the sundry activities.

Child labour masquerading as education? Hoho

 

[broken arm]

Maybe I'm misreading Ken Robinson's tone, but the talk seems to me to be saying that if we could re-engineer education to encourage creativity then we'll all find personal fulfillment

that's interesting. i never read it like that but now you say it his tone could be construed that way.. hmmmm. I see what he is saying in much more practical terms of curriculum and pedagogy

The conference I saw him speak at was an education conference and it was about strategic but practical approaches to changing education in the future. The audience were senior educators (chancellors, professors etc), design business people and government types.

 

[lemonbravo]

Maybe I'm misreading Ken Robinson's tone, but the talk seems to me to be saying that if we could re-engineer education to encourage creativity then we'll all find personal fulfillment

I think what he's saying is if we pay closer attention to our children's personality then maybe they can be steered in a direction that will give them personal fulfilment later in life.

 

[ann post]

i disagree with you too egg, but not because i think ken robinson there is 100% right. education here has developed into something very industry driven, theres more learning by rote then there is developing aptitude in the coursework. they used to to teach kids to teach themselves, now its more about grooming for specific industries.

 

[egg_]

they used to to teach kids to teach themselves

When? Both my parents' experience of school seems to have been mostly rote learning. Even when I was doing physics in UCD in the early 90s there was an awful lot of rote learning going on. I have the impression things have improved, in schools anyway (my Ma and brother are both teachers), but I guess I won't know for sure until Isabelle gets home from her first day today

 

[broken arm]

they used to to teach kids to teach themselves, now its more about grooming for specific industries.

this has become so blantant now in the UK (at university level) because they recently merged the Department for Innovation University and Skills with the Department Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform. The new department is called department Business, Innovation and Skills

 

[Squiggle]

How did all the first dayer's get on? I just got a call from my niece to tell me about her first day. No tears on her side, but my sister sounded pretty close to them even after the event.

 

[ann post]

When? Both my parents' experience of school seems to have been mostly rote learning. Even when I was doing physics in UCD in the early 90s there was an awful lot of rote learning going on. I have the impression things have improved, in schools anyway (my Ma and brother are both teachers), but I guess I won't know for sure until Isabelle gets home from her first day today

rote learning in physics?? shocking