Public versus Private Sector (6 Viewers)

[7 - No tomorrow]

no - I'm saying they would have liked a pay cut or unpaid leave but they didn't get the option.

should I get them to give you a call so you can counsel them?

That unpaid leave craic was unworkable bollocks.
Like 'productivity and efficiency measures' it was a bargaining position and the savings would never have materialised.
It was quite rightly thrown in the bin.

I have plenty of sympathy for public service workers trying to manage on a reduced income, but that proposal was not going to deal with the issue at hand.

 

[I Bleed Black]

What's your point dude? That because other people are losing their jobs and getting their pay cut then the public sector should stop whinging and accept it? Because if that was what you were saying then that would really be a non-argument.

Bullshit. The reason private sector people have taken a pay cut or lost their jobs is beacause employers couldn't afford to pay them. The government i.e. the public sector employer is very nearly broke so public sector employies need to man the fuck up and take it on the chin like the rest of us. They should be grateful for a bit of job sercurity.

 

[Thebeard]

This thread is ridiculious.

 

[therealjohnny]

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

I only joined on page 23

I bear no responsibility for the preceding 22 pages.

 

[Cryptid]

The actual problem here isn't Public Sector workers being angry at their pay being docked. If this were the UK, France or most other Western countries, the State wouldn't even countenance such a move. There will be no pay cuts in these countries, and if, perchance, it is mooted, then you'll see weeks of crippling strikes. We've had one day of stoppages. That's all. It's partly because Ireland is one of the few western Countries that never went through an industrial phase. We've pretty much gone from being an agricultural society (the 1950s) to being a services society (1990s), without any mass industrialisation and the consequent social unrest/union militancy in between. So please don't tell the public sector to man up - they're actually taking it really well. Most other countries are shocked that these cuts are being implemented.

This, I think, is the actual problem, or at least part of: when I started in the Public Sector, about 9 years ago, the basic grade, just in the door salary was just over €13K per annum. Now, it's just over €25K. That's almost a 100% increase in 9 years or around 10% per year. There are similar rises for all of the other grades. This was stupidly unsustainable and it shouldn't have happened. It's true that the public sector unions arranged this with the 'Social Partners', but we, the public sector workers were not lobbying for it and we didn't look for it. It was a surprise to most people. Fatso et al need to recognise this - repeatedly they have said it was the right thing to do, but, along with the banking shenanagains, and a few other supreme fuckups, it's just fucked up the country.

So this is my five point plan for saving the Country.

1) We, the people, round up about 500 people, consisting of top bankers, rogue developers, one or two sectretary generals, a couple of union heads, Bertie and Biffo (Biffo because he was minister for Finance) and other greasy fuckers. We interrogate them for their role in this fiasco - behind closed doors;
2) We have a two question referendum, the first question being, will we have a one off hanging for about 10 of these lads? Everyone says yes;
3) We hang about 10 of them. Chuck the rest in Portlaoise for a few years;
4) A wonderful sense of comaradrie envelopes the country. We introduce tough regulations to make sure this shit doesn't happen for at least another 20 or so years;
5) The second question on the referendum was 'Will we have a one-off nationalisation of the oil and gas fields'? Everyone votes yes. We watch the money roll in.

(Just in case anyone is bitching about me typing this on tax payers money, I have a day off today, bitches).

 

[broken arm]

That unpaid leave craic was unworkable bollocks.
Like 'productivity and efficiency measures' it was a bargaining position and the savings would never have materialised.
It was quite rightly thrown in the bin.

I have plenty of sympathy for public service workers trying to manage on a reduced income, but that proposal was not going to deal with the issue at hand.

whether it was workable or not doesn't bother me at this stage. I'm just pointing out that the people close to me that have lost their jobs just before christmas would have jumped at either option but the choice wasn't given.

it's the simple fact that when all possible costs have been saved and efficiencies made the next thing to go is people.

 

[Froog]

This was stupidly unsustainable and it shouldn't have happened. It's true that the public sector unions arranged this with the 'Social Partners', but we, the public sector workers were not lobbying for it and we didn't look for it.

then why are ye angry about pay cuts???

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

The actual problem here isn't Public Sector workers being angry at their pay being docked. If this were the UK, France or most other Western countries, the State wouldn't even countenance such a move. There will be no pay cuts in these countries, and if, perchance, it is mooted, then you'll see weeks of crippling strikes. We've had one day of stoppages. That's all. It's partly because Ireland is one of the few western Countries that never went through an industrial phase. We've pretty much gone from being an agricultural society (the 1950s) to being a services society (1990s), without any mass industrialisation and the consequent social unrest/union militancy in between. So please don't tell the public sector to man up - they're actually taking it really well. Most other countries are shocked that these cuts are being implemented.

This, I think, is the actual problem, or at least part of: when I started in the Public Sector, about 9 years ago, the basic grade, just in the door salary was just over €13K per annum. Now, it's just over €25K. That's almost a 100% increase in 9 years or around 10% per year. There are similar rises for all of the other grades. This was stupidly unsustainable and it shouldn't have happened. It's true that the public sector unions arranged this with the 'Social Partners', but we, the public sector workers were not lobbying for it and we didn't look for it. It was a surprise to most people. Fatso et al need to recognise this - repeatedly they have said it was the right thing to do, but, along with the banking shenanagains, and a few other supreme fuckups, it's just fucked up the country.

So this is my five point plan for saving the Country.

1) We, the people, round up about 500 people, consisting of top bankers, rogue developers, one or two sectretary generals, a couple of union heads, Bertie and Biffo (Biffo because he was minister for Finance) and other greasy fuckers. We interrogate them for their role in this fiasco - behind closed doors;
2) We have a two question referendum, the first question being, will we have a one off hanging for about 10 of these lads? Everyone says yes;
3) We hang about 10 of them. Chuck the rest in Portlaoise for a few years;
4) A wonderful sense of comaradrie envelopes the country. We introduce tough regulations to make sure this shit doesn't happen for at least another 20 or so years;
5) The second question on the referendum was 'Will we have a one-off nationalisation of the oil and gas fields'? Everyone votes yes. We watch the money roll in.

(Just in case anyone is bitching about me typing this on tax payers money, I have a day off today, bitches).

I'm down with this.

 

[I Bleed Black]

then why are ye angry about pay cuts???

Exactly, stop yer bitching and whining and strike threats and just get on with life. You're not being asked to give up more than anyone else just do your part.

 

[magicbastarder]

4) A wonderful sense of comaradrie envelopes the country. We introduce tough regulations to make sure this shit doesn't happen for at least another 20 or so years;

who's this 'we'? 'we' voted the fuckers in time after time - and i was told by several people that they voted for bertie because they knew he was a shyster.

 

[Lili Marlene]

i was told by several people that they voted for bertie because they knew he was a shyster.

"at least they're honest about their corruption" was one argument I heard quite a few times

 

[egg_]

What's your point dude? That because other people are losing their jobs and getting their pay cut then the public sector should stop whinging and accept it? Because if that was what you were saying then that would really be a non-argument.

seems like a perfectly good argument to me. why should the public sector be treated differently to the private sector?

"Be treated differently"? What are you talking about dude? There is no one out there "treating" the different sectors differently.

If you're saying the govt can't afford to pay the public service, then that's a position we can debate. Y'know, we can discuss govt borrowing requirements, deflation, the IMF, provision of services, whether cuts will actually help us get out of recession - things like that.

If, on the the other hand, what you're trying to say is "We had a pay cut, so they should be cut too otherwise it won't be fair" then I don't want to waste my time

why should goverment jobs be secure for life and not be subject to pay cuts and redundancies?

Power. The unions in the PS are powerful, and the top civil servants are powerful. Simple as that. Same reason hospital consultants get 200K+ and bankers can do whatever the fuck they want

 

[pete]

That unpaid leave craic was unworkable bollocks.

It's already in place on a voluntary basis in the public sector and the sky hasn't fallen. It's also a common enough practice in the private sector.

 

[egg_]

Exactly, stop yer bitching and whining and strike threats and just get on with life. You're not being asked to give up more than anyone else just do your part.

"Do your part"? Ah lads. This isn't a war, this is a recession.

 

[pete]

public sector employies need to man the fuck up and take it on the chin like the rest of us.

Oh yeah? So how much did everyone else get stung for in the budget? I won't know for sure how much i'm down until the end of january, but it's a cut of in or around 6.5% on top of the €250+ my monthly take home had already been cut in the previous 12 months. All this and extra work thanks to a mass retirement exodus and no vacancies being filled.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Oh yeah? So how much did everyone else get stung for in the budget? I won't know for sure how much i'm down until the end of january, but it's a cut of in or around 6.5% on top of the €250+ my monthly take home had already been cut in the previous 12 months.

over the next few weeks my place will decide if it hit its projected targets for the year, and as a result of this, decisions will be made on whether if it needs more or less people, if we'll get our bonus, if we'll get a pay cut or pay freeze or whether they'll just ship everything off to east asia.

It's like some kind of crazy second budget!




now can we all stop bitching at each other and get back to arguing about bratz dolls

 

[snakybus]

I think I'm down 7 grand, as my wife's in the public sector.

I shall take this fact to the pub sector.

It's gonna cost her 30 quid a month to work. Maaaad.

 

[Froog]

i would take a 10% cut for job security no bother.

 

[ann post]

this thread has been insane for weeks. anyone fancy taking unpaid leave of it for a week or two, maybe read some interesting works by an author your curious about or maybe hill walking or something. i've said it before, the only 'public vs. private' sector there is is in your heads.