Fairytale of Kathmandu (1 Viewer)

[travispickle]

I really don't know how I feel on the issue of whether or not you can seperate someones art from their behaviour. You don't hear an awful lot of Gary Glitter these days for obvious reasons, but critics can still shower Roman Polanski with praise and very few people will recoil in repulsion. I know their crimes aren't the same, but there are certainly similarities.

The American director Victor Salva (Powder, Jeepers Creepers) was convicted of sex with a young boy - he even taped the incident, yet he still finds work in Hollywood today.

All good points and I agree that in some cases, i.e. Polanski, a certain notoriety can ensue which otherwise shouldn't. It is problemmatic. I did say above that one's reading of the work would be coloured by events, but really it shouldn't detract from the work. That should (ideally) still stand for what it is.
If you think of say, T.S. Eliot, who was accused of anti-semitic sentiments in his work - I still can read his poetry and be amazed at how fantastic it is, despite my knowledge of his anti-semitism.

 

[travispickle]

For some reason I always thought Jeepers Creepers was directed by Francis Ford Coppola.

What JohnnyC said - although the posters would have made you think Coppola directed (deliberately, I might add).

 

[Moods For Mallards]

If you think of say, T.S. Eliot, who was accused of anti-semitic sentiments in his work - I still can read his poetry and be amazed at how fantastic it is, despite my knowledge of his anti-semitism.

Yes but where this becomes problematic is if TS Eliot went beyond expressing anti-semitic sentiments and say, killed a few Jews.
Ó Searcaigh is not accused of expressing paedophile sentiments in his work, rather that the money he earns through his work is enabling him to commit what might be actual physical abuse.
If TS Eliot was noted as a poet who beat up Jews, I don't think he'd be on the Leaving Cert syllabus.

 

[travispickle]

True enough...good point.

 

[Johnnyc]

Talking of anti-semetic, many significant advances in the fields of medicine and engineering are down to the Nazis!

And lest we forget their amazing fashion sense!

 

[Moods For Mallards]

Talking of anti-semetic, many significant advances in the fields of medicine and engineering are down to the Nazis!

And lest we forget their amazing fashion sense!

Crap architecture.

 

[avernus]

Talking of anti-semetic, many significant advances in the fields of medicine and engineering are down to the Nazis!

And lest we forget their amazing fashion sense!

Like say for example making lamp shades out of human skin. True innovators, the Nazis.

 

[Johnnyc]

Crap architecture.

Nobody is perfect.

 

[the strange guy]

I never heard of this fella before this came out.
I haven't seen the documentary.
And maybe he exploited or deceived these boys into having sex.

BUT

If people only had sex under completely honest and open pretences, there would be fuck all sex happening
(not that lying about your intentions before getting your ride on is cool, just that an oul fib fuck is probably one of the most common styles of the day)

Just sayin.

 

[avernus]

I never heard of this fella before this came out.
I haven't seen the documentary.
And maybe he exploited or deceived these boys into having sex.

BUT

If people only had sex under completely honest and open pretences, there would be fuck all sex happening
(not that lying about your intentions before getting your ride on is cool, just that an oul fib fuck is probably one of the most common styles of the day)

Just sayin.

the strange guy

 

[timbot]

In relation to Ts Eliot, Roman Polanski, Michael Jackson and Gary Glitter. I think the impact on the critical appraisal of their works has not really been affected by the charges. TS Eliot was one of the towering figures of 20th century literature. Anti-Semitism or no his works merit discussion (Ezra Pound really was an anti-semite and his work is still respected and studied).

What changes is the popular perception of that artist. So Eliot, Polanski, even Jackson are well resepected for their artistic works. Gary Glitter was never an innovator or well respected for his work and so it becomes more apparent when the popular media stops reporting on him.

 

[the strange guy]

All I'm saying was that, in my opinion, 16 is old enough to know what cock in the bum means.

If your man's sexual desire wasn't borne out of deep, unwavering love for these young fellas I don't really see that as being much different from most men out on the pull.

These two facts together turns the issue into a moot point for me, as I feel the poet holds no moral obligation to me and he broke no laws.

I read people were horrified by one of the lads saying 'What is sex?' Was he asked this in English or Nepali?

But, like I said, I haven't seen the doc.

 

[avernus]

All I'm saying was that, in my opinion, 16 is old enough to know what cock in the bum means.

If your man's sexual desire wasn't borne out of deep, unwavering love for these young fellas I don't really see that as being much different from most men out on the pull.

These two facts together turns the issue into a moot point for me, as I feel the poet holds no moral obligation to me and he broke no laws.

I read people were horrified by one of the lads saying 'What is sex?' Was he asked this in English or Nepali?

But, like I said, I haven't seen the doc.

yeah you're just relating it to yourself at 16 or what you know of 16 year olds here. if you watch the doc you'll probably feel different.

 

[the strange guy]

I don't see how any mentally healthy 16 year old that recognises what a penis is can be tricked into accepting it into their arse, but fair enough, I haven't seen the doc.
I'm a paedofan after all.

 

[timbot]

I don't see how any mentally healthy 16 year old that recognises what a penis is can be tricked into accepting it into their arse, but fair enough, I haven't seen the doc.
I'm a paedofan after all.

Quite aside from whether something is legal or not is it morally acceptable? Because he was in a position of power (he had money that these people desperately needed) he traded it for sexual favours (with some very young boys to be fair).

 

[paula]

I read people were horrified by one of the lads saying 'What is sex?' Was he asked this in English or Nepali?

i interpreted that he said this in a "philosophical" way rather than "what is this sex you speak of?" if that makes sense?

 

[avernus]

I don't see how any mentally healthy 16 year old that recognises what a penis is can be tricked into accepting it into their arse, but fair enough, I haven't seen the doc.
I'm a paedofan after all.

it's not simply about being tricked. he's not some paul daniels. they're extremely impressionable, sexually inexperienced and innocent. and he's charming, intelligent, world wise and splashing cash on them under the guise of philanthropy and then the next thing is, he's showing them how we do it in the west.

what the doc also mentions is that many boys have little contact with girls. they have little social interaction with them, there are no discos. marriages are arranged. so our concept of sexual identity is very different to theirs. from the moment we can go outside sexuality is everywhere - on tv, in magazines, in newspapers, on billboards, in school. it's not the same there.

which is not to say that these boys aren't gay. some might be some might not be. but their first sexual experience is coming in the form of this 50 year old saviour come sex tourist.

 

[the strange guy]

I think there's a danger of imposing our Irish morals on a country thousands of miles away whose laws allow for this behaviour.

If the argument is that all of these 16 year old lads are impressionable, inexperienced and innocent then should they be subject to personality tests prior to sleeping with him or should he have waited an extra 24 months before they blossom into mature men who can handle sleeping with a fat old man?


I know, I know, I should watch the doc.
Is there anywhere online I can watch it before I stick my foot in it again?

 

[therealjohnny]

Clips and stuff here;

http://vinegarhill.com/fairytale/

http://www.fairytaleofkathmandu.com/


edit: or rather, there will be at some point

 

[timbot]

I think there's a danger of imposing our Irish morals on a country thousands of miles away whose laws allow for this behaviour.

If the argument is that all of these 16 year old lads are impressionable, inexperienced and innocent then should they be subject to personality tests prior to sleeping with him or should he have waited an extra 24 months before they blossom into mature men who can handle sleeping with a fat old man?


I know, I know, I should watch the doc.
Is there anywhere online I can watch it before I stick my foot in it again?

But regardless of whether it is legal or not is it morally acceptable? To take an extreme example: If a country were to repeal the laws against murder and you went over and slaughtered a couple of guys and came home does that mean that you have done nothing wrong?