why are all the meteor nominees on british labels? (2 Viewers)

[molateen]

Edit: I don't give a fuck about the Meteors or the Irish music industry or whatever... I just want someone to tell me: who is Carly Hennessy? I need answers... it's been three years now.

[/quote]

Irish singer Carly Hennessy, despite having slowly and steadily building a resume that included modeling and acting, became a cautionary tale when she entered the highly competitive teen pop market. Born in Dublin, Hennessy, whose mother was a known fashion model in Ireland, was appearing in print ads as a young child. Her family briefly relocated to South Africa, but upon their return to Dublin, Hennessey chose to pursue more artistic endeavors. At the age of nine, she beat out a large number of hopefuls to land a role in the international production of Les Miserables. She also continued to model, raising her profile in her native Ireland as the featured model in a national ad campaign for a sausage company. There was also the release of an album of holiday songs in Ireland and the UK, as well as a small role in the movie Fools Of Fortune. However, a music career was the goal of the young singer and, with her father, she went to Los Angeles to peddle a demo. Her demo landed in the hands of MCA's president, who signed Hennessy on the spot to a contract, with the label setting her up to record a debut album. The initial results apparently pleased neither the label or the singer and former New Radical Gregg Alexander came aboard to salvage the project. The resulting album, Ultimate High, finally was issued in late 2001 and received solid reviews. Unfortunately, and despite MCA having reportedly spent in excess of two million dollars on the effort, it failed to dent the exhausted teen market with none of the singles taking off and the album selling in the hundreds as opposed to the hundreds of thousands which would have been necessary for all involved to recoup on their investment. ~ Tom Demalon, All Music Guide

 

[nlgbbbblth]

ah, the would-bes...... nah, that was a single, released on a tiny irish label called danceline and picked up on by Peel

I never saw the Danceline single.
My copies (7" and 12") are on Decoy. Wasn't Decoy an English label?

 

[Beanstalk]

Unfortunately, and despite MCA having reportedly spent in excess of two million dollars on the effort, it failed to dent the exhausted teen market with none of the singles taking off and the album selling in the hundreds as opposed to the hundreds of thousands which would have been necessary for all involved to recoup on their investment.

2 million fucking dollars!

That really is disgusting. I'd love to see the cost breakdown of that 2m.

 

[Buckrake]

The resulting album, Ultimate High, finally was issued in late 2001 and received solid reviews. Unfortunately, and despite MCA having reportedly spent in excess of two million dollars on the effort, it failed to dent the exhausted teen market with none of the singles taking off and the album selling in the hundreds as opposed to the hundreds of thousands which would have been necessary for all involved to recoup on their investment.

No-one's ever heard of her, MCA spent $2m dollars on her, she wins 'best irish singer' at the meteor awards, and three years later, there are still people on thumped who take these things seriously? sheesh

 

[Pilchard]

I never saw the Danceline single.
My copies (7" and 12") are on Decoy. Wasn't Decoy an English label?

danceline was a tiny label here who put it out on 7 inch and it was then picked up on by Decoy

actually, did the would bes ever release an album? i always remember they seemed to have a new female singer every time i saw them

 

[Popeye]

You're not going to change the music industry and you shouldn't expect to, unless you're going to take over permanent tsb and turn it into a record label. The industry wants to make its money back, which is fine. If you don't think you could make a label very wealthy don't sign with them.

What music industry in Ireland is there to change, exactly?

From where I'm sitting, apart from very few exceptions, Ireland doesn't have a music industry.

Just a bunch of half-arsed, part-timers whose idea of 'making their money back' is making a 'finders fee' when the band or artist lands a UK or USA deal.

How many times have you been at a gig in Dublin, being introduced to someone who is "A&R ing for [insert name of big uk/us label]" only to discover that they are actually a real estate agent, or computer sales person during the day?

You say turn permanent TSB into a record label...I say that many on the board of permanent TSB understand the *CASH VALUE* of music. Every financial consultant worth their salt would understand that the cash value of a talented artist/band is obscene. It's a license to fecking print money.

The problem is all those financial wizards are scared shitless of investing money in Irish music, because there is no industry or semblance of a professional framework to work with here.

Ironically, the financial wizards in New york and London know *exactly* the cash value of Irish music....and all they have to do is wait patiently for the junket invite from the gobshoites at HWCH and other events or until the struggling-but-talented artist, disillusioned and disenchanted by the lack of a domestic industry setup, flys to new york or london and begs for a deal.

It's like lambs to the fecking slaughter.

Ironically, at the meteors next year, we'll all be guffawing and patting ourselves on the back about how talented we all are, begorrah.

The IRONY being that *WE* are the only fecking eejits in the point depot who don't see the cash value in IRISH MUSIC.

PARADOXICALLY we have NO confidence in Irish Music, yet, we have DOCUMENTARYS on our national TV channel waxing very lyrical about how well Irish bands and artists have done, how many albums they've sold and even, I kid you not, publishing how much tax free income artists make from publishing royalties in the national press.

I'm not Kidding. In the national fucking newspapers, it printed HOW MUCH the artists MAKE from royalties. In Black and White. In print. For everyone to see.

Yet not one GOBSHITE reading it wondered...jayzis..hold on a sec' lads...if the royalties are only a fraction of what money was made from their music...someone, somewhere must be making a bleedin' mint from Irish music.

By the way....

A domestic industry isn't just about stopping the flow of talent + money out of the country. It's about investing in music domestically.

The flow of money out of the country, means that there is nobody to invest in Irish music. Nobody will take a risk at throwing a few quid at a few bands to "see what happens".

The result is very little experimentation. All we end up with is ZERO innovation and TOTAL commercialisation. Bands desperate to get that elusive 'deal' will ape whatever is current in the UK or USA to grab attention.

Without any solid investment flowing into irish music, going into the studio to do a demo/debut album/ep is invariably a clusterfuck of favours. "I know a guy who did a course in sound in DIT..he can mix it for us."...."my cousin does the cleaning at a studio in dublin, he reckons we can record on a sunday, if we're quick."

Everything is done on a shoestring.

There's no money there to invest in a decent producer to pull and drag the art into something that doesn't sound like every other fucking band that's in the charts at the moment.


WHY?

because artists are being told that SUCCESS is getting a 'current' sounding DEMO together, playing HWCH, catching the eye of a USA/UK label guy and breaking the states/UK.

The reality is that SUCCESS comes when you can give up the day job, make enough money to pay the bills, live comfortably and have enough money left over to make the NEXT ALBUM.

Once that is acheived and you don't have to rely on friends, neighbours and relations to fill whelans...the world is your lobster.

I know some heavyweight financial sector people who know more than anyone what the cash value of Irish music is. Drop an email to Ossie Killkenny and ask his team - who did the accounts for most of the big Irish sellers of the last 20/30 years - if he thinks it's hot.

The problem is that to attract investors in music, it requires a professional framework. An Industry.

At the moment we don't have it.

Ask anyone at the major postboxes in Dublin, whetrher it's Bony, Uni or EMI and they will tell you that once their budget goes above 50,000 euro for a Dustin, Joe Dolan or wolftones album, they have to get on the phone to london to ask permission..and they will invariably be told 'no, but ask them to do a london gig so we can have a look at them...no, wait, the HWCH guys are paying for flights, accomodation and expenses to go to dublin on a junket. we'll use that instead.'

It's fucking ridiculous.

 

[Vinnie]

Are you in a band Popeye or are you involved in music primarily to make money?

 

[egg_]

2 million fucking dollars!

You know, that's not really that much if you put it in a product development context. If you were developing software you could sink that with ease, and you might have nothing to show for it. And, of course, you can develop software in bedroom for nothing too, and possibly come up with something better than a product that took $2M to get to market ... and then fail to get it to market despite it being brilliant, and die in obscure poverty. That's how the world is

As John-out-of-Stoat would say, "no wonder this country is on its fucken knees"

 

[snakybus]

Are you in a band Popeye or are you involved in music primarily to make money?

he's in it for the goils and the spinachk

guh guh guh guh guh

eow, whaddya know, it's Brutusk makin' kissy wid my Olive Oil

I yam whad I yam

 

[Vinnie]

That's it Snakybus. I kanst standkst no mores

he's in it for the goils and the spinachk

guh guh guh guh guh

eow, whaddya know, it's Brutusk makin' kissy wid my Olive Oil

I yam whad I yam

 

[Popeye]

Are you in a band Popeye or are you involved in music primarily to make money?

Nope. I'm not in a band.

And Nope. I'm not interested in music primarily to make money.

I'm interested in bands that make music for the sake of making music and over the years (I have worked with the majors in London since the mid-90s) which is usually where a certain magic happens sometimes, when least expected.

Some Major A&R, that have long since left the majors, understood that and used to throw a few hundred grand at a mad, but exciting project. Some worked. Some didn't. But overall the 10-to-1 venture capitalist rule of thumb used to work. I.e. out of 10 high risk projects...1 out of those usually make it big. The risks are very high..but, so are the risks.

Those dreamers are gone from the majors, which are run by bean counters now. The impact on music is detrimental. Instead of giving a band a few albums to breathe and develop their songwriting craft - the majors are demanding that bands recoup on their debut album.

So while the majors are very useful as a marketing/finance source for music projects, they are ill equipped at the raw end of the music chain. That end of the music chain needs a strong and healthy independent label sector to get involved in the artist development.

Ireland doesn't have that. Other European territories do. I was in Finland and Sweden recently at their equivalent of HWCH and the buzz was incredible. there isn't that same sense of desperation that you get at those musicfromireland showcases.

There isn't the same 'samey sounding bands' that you get at HWCH type Irish showcases.

WHY?

because they have a strong and solid domestic industry. A healthy independent label sector that gives artists and bands an option to just getting on that plane for that 'all or nothing' flight to austin, london or manchester.

That's the REAL FUCKING VALUE of having a domestic industry and it is the COMPLETE FUCKING OPPOSITE to what the GOBSHITES in charge of the purse strings in Ireland are doing. The money behind HWCH, as an example, should NOT BE USED to EXPORT TALENT and MONEY for 2 reasons:

(a) the majors aren't fucking interested unless they can recoup from the debut.

(b) the bands don't have a chance to go through anything resembling artist development, where they can let their art breath, experiment, develop their songwriting craft.

I hope that makes sense Vinny....all you have to do is listen to some of the music coming out of Sweden/Finland and Norway at the moment. It may not be world changing, but, it's fresh, innovative and interesting.

A million miles away from the anxious, self concious, uptight, please-please-sign-me and business-plan-in-the-back-pocket type showcases you see at HWCH and similar.

 

[Buckrake]

What music industry in Ireland is there to change, exactly? From where I'm sitting, apart from very few exceptions, Ireland doesn't have a music industry ...blah blah blah... It's fucking ridiculous.

You should mirror this thread onto eirecore... those guys are part of the irish music industry too, you know

 

[Flux]

HWCH hardly pay for flights/accomodation/expenses for A&R men, do they?

 

[Buzzo]

I feel like I'm at a lecture in Ballyfermot college.

 

[ernesto]

I feel like I'm at a lecture in Ballyfermot college.

i just was. Pete Holidai can fuck right off with his 'album marketing' assignment bollox.

 

[Buzzo]

i just was. Pete Holidai can fuck right off with his 'album marketing' assignment bollox.

Bummer.

I nearly did that course. Then I met some Russian street children and did social care. Everyday I thank God for homeless children.

 

[telford collier]

the purse strings, the purse strings, the purse strings!!! sheesh! use another phrase. its bad enough i had to go through all your stupid posts but repetition.....oh no

 

[ernesto]

Bummer.

I nearly did that course. Then I met some Russian street children and did social care. Everyday I thank God for homeless children.

having to put up with that shite is worth it to use Reason & cubase and spend days recording in a cool studio. pros n cons like

 

[egg_]

I've never worked for the majors, but I've been playing in a band on the uncool shitty fringes of the underground scene for 19 years now, and I think Popeye is right. It's dumb that the government is subsidising foreign labels to come over here, cherrypick bands and make money out of them which all goes out of the country. I think there are some amazing bands producing deadly music in Ireland (which Popeye probably doesn't get to hear because of the distance betwen the majors and the underground) - if the govt subsidised the real Irish industry (people like Out on a Limb and Trust me I'm a Thief), the artists might make enough money from what they're doing to spend more time on what they do and actually fulfil their fucken potential? Imagine what the rednecks or giveamanakick or mumblin deaf ro would come out with if they actually had 2 days a week off work to spend on songwriting ...

 

[Popeye]

the purse strings, the purse strings, the purse strings!!! sheesh! use another phrase. its bad enough i had to go through all your stupid posts but repetition.....oh no

Apologies for the repeat use of the term.

And I agree with you. It is incredibly stupid.

Even when you explain to Irish people that it's their fecking money that's been spent on HCWH type initiatives. In other words, there are GOBSHITES WHO HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE in charge of spending YOUR money.

It's truly amazing and you're spot on Telford Collier, it is incredibly stupid.