US Election 2016 (2 Viewers)

[hydromancer]

Jr then said he'd done nothing wrong, because the lawyer had not in fact given him any dirt on clinton... so it was a botched attempt at collusion.

Yeah but this statement is important even if he was willing to "get dirt" on Clinton the Russian lawyer didn't provide any. It takes two to tango as they say and he was left without a dance partner. For instance what exactly then was the info that Trumps son in law got from her that damaged Hillarys campaign ?

 

[MilanPan!c]

Yeah but this statement is important even if he was willing to "get dirt" on Clinton the Russian lawyer didn't provide any. It takes two to tango as they say and he was left without a dance partner. For instance what exactly then was the info that Trumps son in law got from her that damaged Hillarys campaign ?

Exactly.

Showing that Trump's son, and two of the campaign's most senior people - including the guy now is in charge of dozens of major issues in the US and abroad, like trying to negotiate some sort of settlement between Israel and Palestine - showing that those folks were willing to secretly work with the Russian government for PERSONAL gain, is almost as bad as actually doing it.

 

[hydromancer]

Sure Trump in fact publicly called on Russia to relesse missing Hillary emails if they had them but neither that or even his son in law meeting with a Russian lawyer proves collision or involvement from the Russian side. Which by in large has been the argument against him but I don't know where people want to go with that declaring a democratic election null and void and removing the head of state is hardly a small thing to do even if the argument for it would be a restoration of democracy. I think myself its the wrong way to criticise Trump.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Yeah but this statement is important even if he was willing to "get dirt" on Clinton the Russian lawyer didn't provide any. It takes two to tango as they say and he was left without a dance partner. For instance what exactly then was the info that Trumps son in law got from her that damaged Hillarys campaign ?

It's already collusion.

Once you agree to take the meeting you are colluding - wheter you are doing so effectively isn't relevant.

And lets remember that we only have Don Jr. and the russian lawyers say so that the meeting was a bust. I wouldn't put faith in that. Don Jr. has lied every step of the way

Meeting - what meeting?
Leak
Meeting? Oh that meeting about adoptions?
Leak
Oh the meeting that was supposed to be about adoptions but wasnt? Yeah that was nothing.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

Interesting question here is who is leaking this stuff.
It's been beautifuly time to allow Don Jr. fuck himself each step of the way with a new lie.
Have to admire the leaker.

 

[MilanPan!c]

Interesting question here is who is leaking this stuff.
It's been beautifuly time to allow Don Jr. fuck himself each step of the way with a new lie.
Have to admire the leaker.

The three main guess are:

- Someone at Justice
- Jared's people
- Someone in the WH that is finally fed up with Trump.

 

[ann post]

or 5000 people from the FBI

 

[Lili Marlene]

Here's the problems with that:

- Thinking someone is so awful that there's no point in investigating them is basically a license to be awful. Wouldn't it be better to engage in behaviour that had a chance - however ephemeral - of producing better outcomes than Trump?

I don't think there's no point in investigating it, I think I don't want it dominating the fucking internet every time I turn it on. My issue is with the blanket coverage not with whether or not Trump is a walking disaster.

- Again conflating Trump/Russia and US foreign policy since WW1? To what end? I mean, will ignoring Trump Co.'s behaviour meaningfully improve US foreign policy? If not, why are you using one to justify ignoring (or however you want to define your attitude) the other? Why not dislike both? What exact link is there btw.? Because once you go down the road of "country x deserves what they get" you open the door to some really atrocious behaviour; behaviour you seem to dislike when America does it.

same answer as above, I agree with you. I just refuse to make a big deal about this out of principle because it's not surprising. Get him kicked out of office for all I care, he'll just flounce out the door going [**very Trump voice**]
"This is my choice, and it's a great choice, and i'm glad this is happening. You should all thank me", and return to Trump tower 100% convinced that he was the best thing that ever happened to America. Throw him in jail and he'll say he made the jail great again. It barely matters, but by all means go ahead and throw the book at him, i'm not gonna stand in the way.

- MAGA heads are a minority in America. Without the support of traditional Republicans, and Independents, the MAGA heads have no real power. So the goal there wouldn't be to change the unchangeable, but to influence those that aren't natural Trump allies.

Well this is it isn't it, there's a few MAGA heads who encourage this, then there's a pile of never-Trump-ists on the centre of both parties who are mostly offended by his lack of manners but probably agree with everything he's done policy-wise so far and then finally there's everyone else who who don't give a fuck either way and only voted for him either because they always vote republican or because they were voting for a change in politics which wasn't gonna come from Clinton.

I guess in summary I'd say, we need higher standards, not lower. The first step IMO is for the average Joe to be less cynical, and more educated. It's VERY easy to hate America and its foreign policy, but if you do that in such a way as it ignores or justifies other bad behaviour, what's the outcome? I'd argue its likely not better behavior.

No, fuck standards, the US Presidential Office will never, ever recover any standard it pretended it had. They voted in a reality tv star, the time for standards are over. They should just eliminate the office completely or turn it into an actual gameshow for all the importance it has.

Meanwhile those who care about politics (and i recognize that this is probably what you're getting at) should be actually talking about them and not about whatever garbage Trump and his hopeless family emailed and tweeted at each other and some trolling Russians the past week/month/year/whatever.

 

[Lili Marlene]

sorry I should probably answer some of this specifically

Again conflating Trump/Russia and US foreign policy since WW1? To what end?

It's not an end and it's not separate, it's just the next step in a continued mutual aggression and I see that as the problem. It's not whether or not some collusion happened, of course it happened! Whether it's to the point of being illegal or not i'll let someone else work out, we're dealing with morons here. My problem is with people using it as more reasons to escalate tensions with Russia.

I mean, will ignoring Trump Co.'s behaviour meaningfully improve US foreign policy?

It'll make no difference either way. The one thing Trump had going for him during his campaign was that he was saying he would stop the foreign wars and bring the troops home; within days if not hours of taking office there was a huge operation in Yemen. Clearly the only power he personally has foreign policy wise is to be an amusing sideshow for world leaders to LOL at.

If not, why are you using one to justify ignoring (or however you want to define your attitude) the other? Why not dislike both?

I dislike the intent of both, Russia doesn't have military bases all over the world with planes landing in Shannon Airport though. In all honesty I don't understand Russia that well because I know I can't trust the western media's coverage of it and don't read enough stuff coming from Russia itself.

What exact link is there btw.? Because once you go down the road of "country x deserves what they get" you open the door to some really atrocious behaviour; behaviour you seem to dislike when America does it.

Don't mistake what I'm saying against America as anything other than schadenfreude at an international politics level. Morally America isn't more important than any other country but we don't get blanket coverage worldwide when they mess with other elections so yeah, I'm laughing at them that this is happening to them. I'm being mean.

 

[Mormon Nailer]

or 5000 people from the FBI

Would they have the email chain though?
Could be wrong but..Seems to me like it's someone internal to the campaign and administration.

I read that Tillerson was absolutely fuming after the Russia meeting the other day.

There's always the possibility that it's Pence/Priebus/Ryan I mean there is little point putting up with Trump's bullshit of you don't get to kill Obamacare and lask a few tax cuts around!

 

[ann post]

Would they have the email chain though?
Could be wrong but..Seems to me like it's someone internal to the campaign and administration.

I read that Tillerson was absolutely fuming after the Russia meeting the other day.

There's always the possibility that it's Pence/Priebus/Ryan I mean there is little point putting up with Trump's bullshit of you don't get to kill Obamacare and lask a few tax cuts around!

my post wasn't too well thought out. I think my point is really that below the billionaire level he's annoying the fuck out of everyone who similtaneously can't be seen to openly mock the president so i'd say stuff against him will basically be on tap.

 

[nooleen]

Would they have the email chain though?
Could be wrong but..Seems to me like it's someone internal to the campaign and administration.

I read that Tillerson was absolutely fuming after the Russia meeting the other day.

There's always the possibility that it's Pence/Priebus/Ryan I mean there is little point putting up with Trump's bullshit of you don't get to kill Obamacare and lask a few tax cuts around!

this lad thinks it might be jared kushner trying to take attention off himself or something

The Vipers and the Derp

The emails were discovered in recent weeks by Mr. Kushner’s legal team as it reviewed documents, and the team amended his clearance forms to disclose it, according to people briefed on the developments, who like others declined to be identified because of the sensitive political and legal issues involved.

Similarly, Mr. Manafort recently mentioned the meeting to congressional investigators looking into possible collusion, according to the people briefed on the matter.

Clearly it was out of Kushner’s legal process that the story emerged, though hints of it came up in parallel through Manafort’s discussions with congressional investigators. (A separate Times piece notes that it was Kushner’s initial failure to note two critical meetings – one with the Russian Ambassador and another with that Russian state banker – which led to the more searching scrutiny which uncovered this meeting.)

Did Kushner himself or those acting on his behalf more affirmatively push this story into press to aide Kushner in some way? I do not know the answer to this. But I have reason to believe he or those working with him were part of pushing forward story #2, the one that first revealed that dirt on Hillary Clinton was the premise of the meeting with the Russian lawyer.

Why would he do that?

What I’m led to understand is that he might think that putting Don Jr in the spotlight, at the center of the story, would in some way help him, push him into the background and thus take pressure off him. Does that make any sense? Not really. But remember, Kushner thought firing James Comey was a good idea. With Kushner, Don Jr and the rest of these guys, I have a persistent sense that they don’t quite grasp the seriousness of the situation they’re in.

 

[hydromancer]

It's already collusion.

Once you agree to take the meeting you are colluding - wheter you are doing so effectively isn't relevant.

And lets remember that we only have Don Jr. and the russian lawyers say so that the meeting was a bust. I wouldn't put faith in that.

Meeting - what meeting?
Leak
Meeting? Oh that meeting about adoptions?
Leak
Oh the meeting that was supposed to be about adoptions but was
Leak
Oh the meeting that was supposed to be about adoption

It's already collusion.

Once you agree to take the meeting you are colluding - wheter you are doing so effectively isn't relevant.

And lets remember that we only have Don Jr. and the russian lawyers say so that the meeting was a bust. I wouldn't put faith in that. Don Jr. has lied every step of the way

Meeting - what meeting?
Leak
Meeting? Oh that meeting about adoptions?
Leak
Oh the meeting that was supposed to be about adoptions but wasnt? Yeah that was nothing.

No meeting with her itself is not enough. There is nothing illegal about meeting her or what they discussed. Unless there is law in the US that states speaking to a Russian national is itself illegal ? There is also nothing illegal about there discussion on adoption law. Your argument is basically innuendo "they must have been up to no good" or "she must work for the Russian government". Whatever it doesn't prove a collusion between Trump and the Russian government and neither does it proves that Russia rigged the US electorate.

 

[nooleen]

"Watch your back, bitch": Trump’s lawyer threatens a stranger with profanity-laden emails

...Marc Kasowitz, a Wall Street lawyer with minimal experience in federal investigations who burst onto the national scene with a typo-ridden statement defending the president. His top two partners so far, Michael Bowe and Jay Sekulow, are known more for their time on TV than their time in the courtroom, and don’t have anywhere near the background Mueller’s team boasts to take on this challenge.

It’s also not looking like Kasowitz’s team is going to get much stronger anytime soon. Prominent lawyers with investigative experience at four major law firms declined to represent the president, citing concerns about Kasowitz’s leadership and influence over Trump.

Recently there have been reports that Kasowitz could be denied a security clearance, something he needs in order to access classified government information and continue working closely with Trump.

There may be a reason for that, and it’s a serious one: ProPublica spoke with more than two dozen people close with Kasowitz for a recent article who said that he has a history of intermittent alcohol abuse and spent time in rehab in the winter of 2014-’15.

A spokesperson for Kasowitz angrily denied the report, telling Law.com that Kasowitz “has not struggled with alcoholism” and that “much of what [ProPublica] reported is false and defamatory.”

 

[nooleen]

No meeting with her itself is not enough. There is nothing illegal about meeting her or what they discussed. Unless there is law in the US that states speaking to a Russian national is itself illegal ? There is also nothing illegal about there discussion on adoption law. Your argument is basically innuendo "they must have been up to no good" or "she must work for the Russian government". Whatever it doesn't prove a collusion between Trump and the Russian government and neither does it proves that Russia rigged the US electorate.

'Trump Jr. then confirmed the story on Tuesday on Twitter by releasing the actual emails between him and British publicist Rob Goldstone setting up the meeting — emails that proved without a shadow of a doubt that the Trump Jr. was told beforehand that the information he would be getting came from the Russian government.

“This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” Goldstone wrote to Trump Jr. “ “If it’s what you say I love it,” he replied.

Trump Jr. had already admitted in a statement that he took the meeting with the Russian attorney, a woman named Natalia Veselnitskaya, to get useful information on Hillary Clinton.'

Legal experts say Donald Trump Jr has just confessed to a federal crime

 

[David Kronenbourg]

anyway back to the good stuff

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[nooleen]

he's such a weirdo

 

[hydromancer]

'Trump Jr. then confirmed the story on Tuesday on Twitter by releasing the actual emails between him and British publicist Rob Goldstone setting up the meeting — emails that proved without a shadow of a doubt that the Trump Jr. was told beforehand that the information he would be getting came from the Russian government.

“This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” Goldstone wrote to Trump Jr. “ “If it’s what you say I love it,” he replied.

Trump Jr. had already admitted in a statement that he took the meeting with the Russian attorney, a woman named Natalia Veselnitskaya, to get useful information on Hillary Clinton.'

Legal experts say Donald Trump Jr has just confessed to a federal crime

He still didn't get any info from her basically he is guilty of thought crime.

 

[hydromancer]

The whole story about Trump in Moscow by the way came from a former British M15 agent who ended up being funded by both the Republicans and the Democrats to dig dirt on Trump a story that was used even when he had won the election but of course that is fine you know.

 

[therealjohnny]

Someone made the Chris Hansen / To Catch a Predator analogy. He went there fully intending to commit an illegal or at least improper act. Just because this metaphorical 13 year old fuck buddy turned out to be Chris Hansen doesn't excuse his motives. So maybe no prosecutable crime took place but shouldn't it be enough to cause him to resign in disgrace?