Ungdomshuset Evicted (1 Viewer)

[Janer]

possibly a good idea, so on that topic - does anyone know where shorty is? he wasn't one of the arrestees, was he?

Word has it.........

 

[jane]

thanks for reply. please ignore my naive ways but you guys are telling me this, but it sounds like therory from a college text book. I am looking for how this is done in Ireland know. If i have money, i can buy a house. What and who would try to stop me?

Your questions sound like you've got an agenda. Like market research or a college newspaper.

If you have money, you can buy a house, yeah, but where can you buy a house? Can you afford one in Dublin? Most of us can't. Why? Because with the property prices so artificially high due to to the present economic circumstances (and if you need a lesson on these, perhaps you should try looking it up on Wikipedia rather than expecting us to explain the Celtic Tiger economy to you), property in the city is outrageously expensive. People who are from here can't afford to buy here anymore. And they're being run out of their own neighbourhoods. Even where I live, house prices have literally doubled in the last three years, which means that fine, some people who have a family home they can inherit, but other people will not only have to leave the neighbourhood, they may have to leave Dublin completely. It's bad for all of us, too, if only those with lots of money can afford to live here. Who wants to live in a city entirely populated by yuppies? I don't.


There's also the issue of how mortgages are handled. Yes, if you have the cash, you can buy a house, but you won't buy it outright, you'll need a mortgage. Even if you only need a small mortgage, it's tough for anyone to be approved if you aren't on a permanent job with a high wage. Even high-wage workers on contract jobs have a harder time getting a mortgage. And of course, that's not the banks sitting around being conspiratorial, that's how their risk assessment people judge potential mortgage buyers. And the banks, of course, are not charities, they are out for the interests of the people who put the most money into them, and whose continued investment is guaranteed to them.

And what info are you looking for on present manifestations of historical trends? People go buy property in Bulgaria, they drive out the local popuation when they drive up property prices, and Bulgarians end up renting an apartment off someone who lives in another country. That, and the fact that a landlord in Ireland can charge what he or she likes, and people will pay it because they need a place to live. And they'll keep their mouths shut when there's a problem because they have very few rights, and they don't want to be evicted. There are laws and regulations on paper to protect tenants, but there are twice as many loopholes for landlords to avoid these laws and regulations ever being enforced. For example, it's still dead easy for landlords to get away with not putting their names on the registry, and there are all sorts of regulations that can only be applied if you're renting from a registered landlord (though this is starting to change, I think).

I'm curious about why are you asking such basic questions? Could you try to use some of your own critical reasoning before you even ask? Or try putting forth an argument of your own? You've only just joined the forum, so no one is familiar with your stance on anything, and playing devil's advocate in those circumstances is automatically going to make people suspicious of your agenda. And anyway, while I'm sure most people would do their best to respect your position, devil's advocate is purely adversarial, and is not a position in itself. Please provide your informed opinion. Seriously.

 

[Space]

possibly a good idea, so on that topic - does anyone know where shorty is? he wasn't one of the arrestees, was he?

I presume we would have heard if Shorty was arrested.

Buzzo do you wanna put those links in a new thread, where people can add more links etc. It'd make sense as a sticky I think.

 

[jane]

well, lets just say, a friend of mine and her boyfriend are deciding to buy a house,they have saved up for a deposit and are able to get a mortgage. So then they buy a house. These people are not rich, they have enough money to get by, but they work very hard and get a good house. Where is the property laws benefiting the upper class here?

I do not wish to get into the world property area as thats huge. By simply talking about Dublin, can you explain how that works. I know renting is a waste of money overall, and you never end up owning anything. I do rent, my grandmother rented her entire life and never owned her house. But it is only one part of life. This therory just sounds too conspiracy like, i just would need a lot of evidence to start taking it seriously

But just because your friends who are not rich were able to buy a house, that doesn't mean the entire system is fair. They managed to save money and navigate the whole system, and good for them. But that says nothing about not only the global property market, but even about the Dublin property market.

I don't actually think renting is throwing money away, I just think people in Ireland -- as in the UK -- are so obsessed with property ownership that that's the way it's described. I like living in a place where I don't have to pay for repairs, and where I can move without having to sell it. Most European and US cities have a long history of renting -- in general, renting is for apartments and urban living, and you don't own unless you leave the city. Therefore, there's more of a culture of it, and tenants have more rights.

What theory sounds too conspiracy-like?

If you're looking for property figures in Dublin, maybe it would be wise to ask somewhere other than a punk rock internet forum. And if you don't 'buy' anything distilled through a political or social discussion of the laws, why don't you try looking them up yourself? That would be a good place to start.

 

[taubstumm]

hey needleinthehay, i don't know if this post here...

thanks for reply. please ignore my naive ways but you guys are telling me this, but it sounds like therory from a college text book. I am looking for how this is done in Ireland know. If i have money, i can buy a house. What and who would try to stop me?

...was a reply to mine or not, but i'll assume for the moment that it was and try to give you an answer...

i can't make your mind up for you, only you can only do that yourself. so, if this all sounds like a college theory that makes no sense, then maybe it is.

however, my personal belief is that the state is defined by being the only thing allowed to use violence, and that it protects the rights of private property-owners over almost everything else. it took me a few years to get to that conclusion.

so, if you're curious about this stuff, and you think you'd like to find out more before you make your mind up, maybe do some reading and thinking, and see if any of it makes sense. it does to me.

 

[jane]

I presume we would have heard if Shorty was arrested.

Buzzo do you wanna put those links in a new thread, where people can add more links etc. It'd make sense as a sticky I think.

I think people would have heard, but also, he posted on this thread pretty recently, didn't he?

 

[taubstumm]

I presume we would have heard if Shorty was arrested.

ah yeah, i'd just heard that there had been a couple of irish peeps arrested and i'm checking on my homies

 

[Janer]

If you're looking for property figures in Dublin, maybe it would be wise to ask somewhere other than a punk rock internet forum. And if you don't 'buy' anything distilled through a political or social discussion of the laws, why don't you try looking them up yourself? That would be a good place to start.

From where I work
East Wall which are former council houses and are absolutely tiny cost about 500k
Few KM from town hence the prices

Phibsbro' anywhere from 650,000+

Raheny (Foxfield) 800k + (bigger houses but further out)

As Janie said earlier in threads house prices are a joke.....luckily I live in council and that's the only reason why I have money in my pocket, if I had a mortgage I would be so poor.
downside is I have kids playing on my car and druggies all along balcony
although I pay no bin tax!

hehe

 

[needleinthehay]

I do not have any agenda. The best way to learn is to ask questions. You say most of us cant buy a house in Dublin. You cannot really say most, you do not know that. It is possible to do it, because it has been done. I do not believe Wikipedia is a good source of info as its accuracy is based on the number of people who agree with it, not fact.

I dont think house prices have doubled in quite a short space of three years everywhere, maybe some parts, not where i live. It has doubled maybe in the last eight or nine years. But then again, my wages have done the same, they have more then doubled in the last nine years.

Yes I know how banks work in that way, I have worked in a bank. It is done on a person to person basis. Yes if your job is temp, it would be hard. But people who have a career or have demonstrated the saving abilites have a good chance. If it is so hard, No one could buy a house, apart from the very wealthy and that simply is not true.

Yes I know landlords take advantage. I have seen it first hand.

Basic questions are what i ask people when i do not know them. It is the best way to learn.

 

[Janer]

But when you buy your house u have sod all money left to enjoy the finer things of life.
You need to compare the ratio of house prices to wages over the years to see this.

 

[jane]

I do not have any agenda. The best way to learn is to ask questions. You say most of us cant buy a house in Dublin. You cannot really say most, you do not know that. It is possible to do it, because it has been done. I do not believe Wikipedia is a good source of info as its accuracy is based on the number of people who agree with it, not fact.

I dont think house prices have doubled in quite a short space of three years everywhere, maybe some parts, not where i live. It has doubled maybe in the last eight or nine years. But then again, my wages have done the same, they have more then doubled in the last nine years.

Yes I know how banks work in that way, I have worked in a bank. It is done on a person to person basis. Yes if your job is temp, it would be hard. But people who have a career or have demonstrated the saving abilites have a good chance. If it is so hard, No one could buy a house, apart from the very wealthy and that simply is not true.

Yes I know landlords take advantage. I have seen it first hand.

Basic questions are what i ask people when i do not know them. It is the best way to learn.

But what's your point?

Do you always get to know people by asking them a lot of elementary questions about economics?

 

[São Paulo Punk]

I do not have any agenda. The best way to learn is to ask questions. You say most of us cant buy a house in Dublin. You cannot really say most, you do not know that.

Look man, in order to buy a house in Dublin you need an income above 50,000- 60,000 euros, which is generally the collective income of a working couple. This excludes so many people from buying a house for so many reasons. Look at the average industrial income, and then factor in other stuff like childcare etc... The fact of the matter is, most people cant afford to buy houses in Dublin. How do I know? Because Ive spent the last 2 months studying the Irish housing market and reading a ridiculous amount of economic and financial reports about the matter. So there you go.

Personally, I think that Irish people need to get over this obsession with owning their own property. I think that there should be a huge increase in social/co-operative housing as long as it is built with a decent infrastructure around it, i.e. schools, shops, parks, leisure centres, libraries etc, and that there is controlled levels of rent that rise at a rate on par with the average annual inflation.

 

[Janer]

Personally, I think that Irish people need to get over this obsession with owning their own property. I think that there should be a huge increase in social/co-operative housing as long as it is built with a decent infrastructure around it, i.e. schools, shops, parks, leisure centres, libraries etc, and that there is controlled levels of rent that rise at a rate on par with the average annual inflation.

This would go hand in hand with lower rent then?

 

[São Paulo Punk]

And also, FUCK THE SYSTEM!

 

[jane]

But when you buy your house u have sod all money left to enjoy the finer things of life.
You need to compare the ratio of house prices to wages over the years to see this.

Yeah, the wages here are lower in proportion to property prices than a lot of other capital cities, and definitely in places I've lived. I was looking at apartment prices in Boston recently, just out of curiosity, and in case I need to leave next year (I probably will), and for what you pay for the most basic of apartments in Dublin, you can get a penthouse in a doorman building in Boston. Plus, salaries are proportionally higher. And this still only applies to 'professional' jobs. Plenty of people have been pushed out of their own neighbourhoods and communities have been broken up in the interests of 'urban regeneration'.

 

[Janer]

 

[São Paulo Punk]

This would go hand in hand with lower rent then?

I live in a co-op flat. I pay about 3,500 euro a year in rent. So in 10 years time I will have payed 35,000 euros. If I lived here for a 100 years I would end up paying 350,000 euro, which is still less than the average house price in Dublin by over 50,000. Mad.

 

[São Paulo Punk]

Oh yeah, Im also guaranteed security of tenure, so the gaff is effectively mine, as in I can do whatever the fuck I want to the place and none of the care taking staff or any member of the co-op can enter my flat etc... without my consent... Also, if I kick the bucket and my son is still living here then the tenancy will automatically go to him so I dont need to worry about him either. Even if some day I am earning enough money to afford a mortgage, I cant see myself giving this up for 30 years of enormous debt. Fuck that!

 

[Janer]

I live in a co-op flat. I pay about 3,500 euro a year in rent. So in 10 years time I will have payed 35,000 euros. If I lived here for a 100 years I would end up paying 350,000 euro, which is still less than the average house price in Dublin by over 50,000. Mad.

Ya.......
it's like I could never understand when the pub next door to my job was sold a few years back for 3 million or so and I said to someone how does he expect to get his money back????
Of course the reply was with the property prices skyrocketing the way they do that the guy just earns a living for a few years on the beer/food profit and then sells the pub for far more than he paid for it.

Great eh...........

 

[Janer]

Oh yeah, Im also guaranteed security of tenure, so the gaff is effectively mine, as in I can do whatever the fuck I want to the place and none of the care taking staff or any member of the co-op can enter my flat etc... without my consent... Also, if I kick the bucket and my son is still living here then the tenancy will automatically go to him so I dont need to worry about him either. Even if some day I am earning enough money to afford a mortgage, I cant see myself giving this up for 30 years of enormous debt. Fuck that!

I do agree with ya.....why I prefer what I have to and money in my sky rocket....at my age I might as well enjoy life