this auld wan that's up the duff (4 Viewers)

[snakybus]

you girls need to have some babies and gain some perspective

and shave yer legs

 

[pete]

Ok, I have work to do. Will check in again before i go home.

A civil servant, friday afternoon, work to do?

MORE MALE LIES

 

[MDR]

My dad even beat the Vatican, too!

He was tried for heresy because of his objections to the Humanae Vitae. HERESY, I tell you!

On a related point, my brother is one of the three priests involved in this whole controversy in Drogheda.

 

[jane]

Both people have to accept that they have caused a pregnancy. If the man does not want his child aborted then i think it is deeply unfair and unjust for the woman to be able to go ahead and do it without his consent. Unwanted pregnancy is never easy, but both adults still have to accept responsibility for it.

Ok, I have work to do. Will check in again before i go home.

Fine, unwanted pregnancy is never easy, but because it is physically harder on the person with the womb, she should have a bit more say in the matter than simply acceeding to her partner's wishes. Because that's what veto is. It's a power to invalidate all other positions.

Unwanted pregnancy is truly never easy, but a child should be a choice and not a punishment for anyone.

 

[MDR]

Fine, unwanted pregnancy is never easy, but because it is physically harder on the person with the womb, she should have a bit more say in the matter than simply acceeding to her partner's wishes. Because that's what veto is. It's a power to invalidate all other positions.

Unwanted pregnancy is truly never easy, but a child should be a choice and not a punishment for anyone.

jane we're going around in circles. I think we both know how each other feels about this topic at this stage.

 

[glen]

How about if the lady gets up the duff and the gentleman wants her to abort?

 

[jane]

jane we're going around in circles. I think we both know how each other feels about this topic at this stage.

The reason we're going around in circles is that you fail to see the lack of logic in your argument that giving someone veto power over someone else's life is anything like 'equal say'.

 

[jane]

How about if the lady gets up the duff and the gentleman wants her to abort?

Show them this thread.

Fuck sake.

 

[Wilbert]

How is a nation of 'mummy's boys' the antithesis of patriarchy?

Because if really, it was, then the laydeez would long ago have shoved those boys aside and would be occupying far more than 13% of the seats in Dail Eireann.

Y'know, women have the vote too. If they wanted more women occupying those seats, all they have to do is use their vote.

Iknow I'm coming in late into this argument but this whole 'it's my womb' argument is really ridiculous. You can't keep playing the womb card in this argument.

It's the contents of the womb that you don't own and that is what annoys men who hear that kind of thing.

It's not as if women volunteered to take on the burden of having the womb! It's just biology and you can't keep using ownership of it as a justification for doing whatever you like.

If you are sexually active you should take responsibility for the potential consequences of your actions.

I wouldn't vote against any pro-choice legislation. I wouldn't try and force a woman to have a baby she didn't want but I would hope that people would accept their responsibilities and make a choice based on a reason that reflected the seriousness of what they were planning to do.

Maybe I didn't express myself too well.

Just....... be careful out there.

 

[MDR]

The reason we're going around in circles is that you fail to see the lack of logic in your argument that giving someone veto power over someone else's life is anything like 'equal say'.

I will repeat once more. If the woman aborts without the man's consent, where is his equal say?

 

[egg_]

Just that it is underlined by an attitude that women are viewed with suspicion, and need to be protected from themselves. Sometimes it's not about women's wombs, but often, it is. And when it's about women's wombs, it's about protecting women from their own inherent unruliness. It's a reality that this attitude exists. I didn't make it up, and it's not a problem with my 'tone'. My 'tone' is not off. I am pointing out a problem, but just because I'm pointing it out, doesn't mean I am responsible for its existence. If you want, I can go all day and show you very specific examples, beginning with early recorded history, and continuing up to the present day. But do I have to do all that work just for my statement to be validated? I hope not.

Jane it took me a long time to come around to a pro-choice position - so you're saying that I had anti-abortion inclinations when I was younger because I think women are whores and liars? How wrong you are

 

[jane]

playing the womb card

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Is all I can say to that.

I know you don't mean this, so I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your 'you're just annoying men thinking you own anything inside your body' post, which is really rather scary.

 

[pete]

Jane it took me a long time to come around to a pro-choice position - so you're saying that I had anti-abortion inclinations when I was younger because I think women are whores and liars? How wrong you are

what he said

 

[jane]

Jane it took me a long time to come around to a pro-choice position - so you're saying that I had anti-abortion inclinations when I was younger because I think women are whores and liars? How wrong you are

No, I didn't say that. I said that these preconceptions are often unspoken and unacknowledged, but we aren't just victims of historical precedent.

If you were simply a dupe and didn't have individual agency, or the power to make up your own mind, then perhaps you would be a victim of history, but we all have the ability and the power to form our own opinions. You came around to a pro-choice position, but that was done in the context of a society in which there exist underlying and generally unspoken assumptions about women's 'nature'.

There is a difference, as I said before, between these attitudes being evidence for any hatred of women (which they aren't, and which I didn't say), and there existing in society very subtle preconceptions about gender -- both about maleness and femaleness -- that are part of the context in which we all live and make our choices and decisions. I never argued that you thought women were whores and liars, but that in our thoughts, words and actions, we reproduce these things sometimes (because, as I said before, society doesn't just 'exist', it is produced and negotiated by people). It doesn't mean anyone who is pro-life hates women.

 

[jane]

Do you believe that sexism exists?

 

[glen]

This argument would be a whole lot better if everyone only wrote two lines per post.
See, isn't that way easier to read?

 

[La La]

i'm not gonna come out and say im siding with anyone here.
but here's how i feel;
first of all it's catch 22. there will never be any equality when it comes to abortion. there's a man, a woman, and a foetus involved. i'm pro-choice, but i think the father of the child (and not in the case of rape of course) has a big heaping right to have a say. ultimately the decision is my own, which makes is such a difficult scenario to even contemplate...
but the child in my womb is as much his as it is mine. the fact that women are the ones that carry the foetus makes the equality issue slide into a very unfortunate situation.
im losing my point....i just believe personally that abortion should involve both. unless both agree, one will always get vetoed. and lets face it, more than the man or woman, it's the baby that does.

 

[egg_]

No, I didn't say that

You might not have meant to say that, and I realise you probably don't think that, but that's the clear implication of your argument

Do you believe that sexism exists?

Of course. Do you believe all men are sexist? Of course not. But that's where the rant about controlling women's bodies leads. You get personal when someone talks about wombs (your womb), I get personal when someone talks about men's (my) attitude to women

 

[Hector Grey]

i haven't read any of this thread, so:
shame on you all.

hear hear!

pricks.

For fucks sake, it's their first gig give just give them a fucking chance.

thelma mansfield.

 

[spiritualtramp]

Do you believe that sexism exists?

Do you believe that sexism against men exists? Assuming every man who is anti-abortion is a misogynist is a tad anti-male.