Stabbing at all ages gig yesterday (25) (1 Viewer)

[jillface]

and phil did security for a bank too!

 

[nooleen]

not to mention La Vinge (levinge). but my point is exactly that, the characteristics needed to keep fuckos out of a gig is the kind of shit that makes people assholes, so the question of security at a gig isn't really viable in a right-on context (tongue 20-30% of the way into cheek in the use of the term 'right-on' but not entirely)

 

[Himself]

Not neccesarily bouncers need be employed but just security inside on the look out.Someone who doesn't like the music so they won't get distracted and what not.The regular door person would still be in charge.

not to mention La Vinge (levinge). but my point is exactly that, the characteristics needed to keep fuckos out of a gig is the kind of shit that makes people assholes, so the question of security at a gig isn't really viable in a right-on context (tongue 20-30% of the way into cheek in the use of the term 'right-on' but not entirely)

 

[Dylan]

We had a meeting today in the park after a gig. There was about 50 - 60 people there or so, mainly kids who are regulars at the gigs.

We decided on a plan that works in 2 parts to protect ourselves in future.

We've decided to have a meeting an hour before every gig that hapens where anyone who feels strongly enough to defend their community and scene will come along and the group (of about 20-30) will get to know each other there and then so they know if the shit hits the fans that they can rely on each other. If trouble arises at the front gate this group will form a bloc and basically tell whoever it is causing trouble to fuck off.


As part of this we've decided to always have 2 volunteers on the gate keeping lookout during gigs so that people likely to cause trouble arn't allowed past the front gate. They will have a walky talky and should they feel that they need backup or threatened they will radio in to the person controling the sounddesk who will just say something into the mike so that all the people who met about forming the Defense Bloc will meet up somewhere they've all decided best. Like the person will just say something that wont cause panic but that the people who had the meeting will understand.

We're obviously going to see how this works and decide if any changes need to be made. Live and learn I guess.

 

[Rachel666]

i'm willing to help out.

 

[taubstumm]

some points:

re: 'revenge'. this is absolutely not worth it. regardless of how much people might feel aggrieved, this is pointless. on a basic moral level, i don't believe it can be defended. also, however, on a practical level, will only cause more hassle, more fights, and probably result in less events happening in general.

re: the points made by james_sb. i would have to say that, like other people, i'd disagree. he seems to be talking about a context which is completely different to d.i.y. events, and i think the ethos of d.i.y. events is something completely different - it's a reflection of a creative community, so therefore the context in which that community organises its events should be open and inclusive, to the largest extent possible. i.e., no bouncers, no rockstars, no unnecessary extra rules that can't ultimately be justified.

re: bouncers/security/volunteers. it's unfortunate that there is sometimes a knee-jerk reaction anytime anything goes wrong at d.i.y. events to 'get security' in order to prevent it happening again. if it is at all possible, there should never be security of the standard type (bouncers on the door). if there does have to be security, it should be, if possible, low-key, friendly, and rational/cool-headed. if the security is to be provided by members of the collective, they'll have to impose some pretty strict rules on themselves - they'll have to be sober, fair, impartial (and seen to be impartial), easily recognisable (maybe wearing a high-vis jacket or something), and willing to deal with assholes. they also need to be the type of people who are good at de-escalating heated situations. ideally they'd be trained.

re: basta!'s plan for upcoming gigs. if this is what has been agreed, then that should be respected. however, i'd be wary that some people might use the idea of a 'bloc' who are to 'defend the community' as a pretext for revenge attacks, and care could be taken to ensure that the bloc is only to be used if absolutely necessary.

i'd add that i've never been to any of the basta! gigs in greystones, but i've been involved in d.i.y. gigs for years, and i'd hate to see something as positive as the greystones gigs go under due to this kind of hassle.

sorry, forgot to add this the first time. re: the gardai. if it's necessary to keep the gigs going, let them know about them in advance. however, if their involvement can be kept to a minimum, so much the better. i'd assume that the gardai would try to 'deal with the problem' by just shutting down the gigs. again, there's no absolute right answer; it'll have to be decided by the organisers at the time. also, if there is another incident like the stabbing, you should probably ring the cops straight away. not because they should be involved, but because they will be involved somewhere along the line anyway, so you may as well anticipate that (and perhaps reduce their desire to treat you like shit) by getting on to them straight off.

 

[Eddie Gorilla]

That sounds really good actually, Dylan.

 

[mac warzonescum]

except that you're not able to take care of your own security yourself, perhaps?

The point is to look after those not able to look after themselves.

Whether that is a job best left up to John Q. Random-Punker or would be better left up to someone who has experience in that role is up for debate.

 

[La La]

hey lads, really sorry to hear about what happened, i think you guys have handled it well from what you've been posting, dylan.
if i'm ever back in ireland i'll offer my services to help by standing at the gates administering vicious hickeys to the knackers who try and get in and ruin what you guys try to do. (i say this to torment you about your birthday, geddit?)
best of luck with everything though lads.
x

 

[falsemonkey]

We've decided to have a meeting an hour before every gig that hapens where anyone who feels strongly enough to defend their community and scene will come along and the group (of about 20-30) will get to know each other there and then so they know if the shit hits the fans that they can rely on each other. If trouble arises at the front gate this group will form a bloc and basically tell whoever it is causing trouble to fuck off.

QUOTE]

I was involved in the punk community in Plymouth, and for a while we had a similar problem with local scum coming down to cause trouble usually with the younger people at the gigs. So a group of people formed a similar plan, so whenever there was trouble a large group of punters came out and basically warned them off, So it was more of a, hate to say it, scene unity thing. There wasn't any more violence at the gigs after they realised they wouldn't be able to pick off one or two kids on their own. Remember these guys are generally cowards, and will no stand up to a larger group than theirs. Hopefully this will work for you and the presence of this block of people will be enough to avoid any more bullshit and violence.

 

[bohs punks]

well firstly its terrible that someone got stabbed- no justification and hope the person is okay.

anyway at the risk of being shot down as some kind of liberal do gooder fantasy world head.....

people are being labelled here as "knackers" etc and the whole talk is of protecting "us" from "them" etc.

if the whole thing these days is life within the subculture of punk then thats probably the right approach.

but if, god forbid, punk is about some kind of social change aren't these the very people that alliances would need to be built with??

maybe, just maybe, a better idea would eb to talk to these kids who obviosly are hanging around cause they have nothing to do, explain your outrage at events - chances are some of them will also think its out of order ( and who among us hasnt been out of order at some stage in our lives or thought some of "our lot" were out of order), explain what ye are about, maybe agree to have their rap thing as part of the basta events building major bridges and then show them how the diy thing works so they could get their own diy rap thing going etc etc etc.

Ok hard to do, no guarantees of succes but long term this is defo a way of building on the situation ..can anyone see a point in this or am i just talking shit?? the gig wasnt attacked by nazis but by one local youth who was part of a group hanging around for some reason, presumably boredom.

this is the real world folks, tryign to become more of part of it IS an option, or maybe we could all move to a little island somewhere and have a really cool "well protected" scene.

defo being bit of devils advocate here but in a genuine debate rather than taking piss way.

 

[nooleen]

yes, that's a much better idea (not being sarcastic). and maybe not even that difficult to achieve

 

[Eddie Gorilla]

Yeh, seen as Dara, apparently, found out the culprits name by going out and talking to the remaining ones that were there, they're obviously not completely against talking to ye.

 

[Latex lizzie]

You guys should buy guns.

 

[Dylan]

well its not as simple as it sounds

the thing is these guys are mainly from very middleclass families. they're "trying to be hard" for want of a better description.

the ones asking for the rap battle were ok, they weren't really scumbags even, it was a completely different group that came and tried to start fights. After the stabbing the rap ones were pissed off with what this other group had done.

When dara went out and talked to them they all ganged around him until one of them who was apparently a bit sensible took him aside and told him who it was.

from past experience, i dont really think talking to them will make a difference. Obviously though talkng wil be the first step before the bloc is used.

 

[CITY BABY]

well partially agreeing with conor here,this is the real world, so find the bloke and flake the fuckin head of him, In the "real" world this is the only way of dealing with these type of cunts, if someone shits on your doorstep you fuckin make sure they wont do it again!

really shit buzz bout yer man being stabbed, hope he recovers fully soon, but seriously ya tackle this properly or itll just keep happening

by the way this isnt revenge its sorting out a problem!

 

[nooleen]

You guys should buy guns.

is this someone using latex lizzie's account to post stupid shit cos it wasn't logged off? it's really hard to tell.

 

[W.]

just to jump way back to the middle of the discussion,
Security can only protect kids in the venue - and this problem extends much further than that. You'd have to hire security to walk all the kids home too.

Like the new plan basta!

 

[falsemonkey]

I agree with your points on having "security".

The plan you (basta) have should work because it will avoid the need for violence.

 

[KatieMutated]

"eh! stop mockin the STONES!"
fuck off i used to live there, PRE-BASTA, I hated it then, now its improved immensely with the gigs (which i have already stated.) I said the scangers in greystones are inbred....why are you getting sad about that? scangers all over the feckin country are.