Solidarity with murdered Greek Anarchist! (1 Viewer)

[D0njo]

If it's not confirmed yet that he's an anarchist then how can an anarchist march "in solidarity" be anything but opportunistic? March because a kid got killed by all means, but anarchists tagging it as "in solidarity" makes no sense, well to me anyways.

Yeah, I don't do anything these days if the word "anarchist" or "anarcho" or whatever isn't involved... it just doesn't make sense otherwise, also I couldn't care less about civilians, ie, not "anarchist"

 

[piratecore]

cant you march in solidarity with someone who isnt the same as you, in fact is that not the point. or am i utterly mistaken.

im not trying to be snidey or score points here.

 

[Cian Nugent]

cant you march in solidarity with someone who isnt the same as you, in fact is that not the point. or am i utterly mistaken.

im not trying to be snidey or score points here.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/solidarity

I would take from that, that you should feel a sense of affiliation with whatever it is you have solidarity with.

 

[ci]

Fair dues to all those who turned out tonight despite the cold. Pix to follow.

 

[Shorty]

While anarchism and anarchists are quite a significant political force in Greece and I'd like to think there were up to a hundred thousand anarchists there (from looking at the protests), this is quite clearly not the case.

They have obviously been instigators of sorts, been there from the start and at the forefront but this ignores both the amount of other people, workers and young people involved in this, the context of everything else that's been taking place up to now in terms of struggle as well as the current socio economic climate. There has been nurses strikes, government ministries occupied, universities and secondary schools being occupied, other riots against police brutality (including police attacks on immigrants and textile workers), thousands of prisoners on strike in most prisons looking for reform, a national stoppage in October, two earlier general strikes and there was already a call for a general strike on wednesday (today). And all of this in the further context of an economic crisis.

The point is, as horrible as the cold blooded murder of Alexandros was, it was merely the spark to the powder keg of an underlying social unrest. Even mainstream media is pointing out all this. There is currently occupations taking place of thousands of secondary schools and of a majority of universities, demos and assemblies taking place and now 2.5 million workers in the GSEE and ADEDY general unions, comprising around half of Greece's total workforce are to strike today. With most likely tens of thousands taking part in demos.

It is the people themselves in Greece taking part in social struggle, the assemblies, etc. calling for international solidarity in the form of protests, demos, occupations, actions, and so on. These have taken place so far in Berlin, Hamburg, Dresden Frankfurt, Bremen, Cologne, Den Haag, Nilmegen, Turin, Bologna, Warsaw, Wroclaw, London, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dublin, Vienna (that's to the best of my knowledge) with more to take place today, even as far away as New Zealand. All of these have been in solidarity not just with Alexandros but also with the current social struggle taking place in Greece and in support of the general strike today.

And while the idea behind solidarity is "An injury to one is an injury to all", anarchism and the concept of solidarity isn't an identity or a little club were you go out and support only those who also fulfill this (non existent) identity, but about internationalism and support for other peoples struggles and efforts and particularly those that exhibit those tendencies of self organisation and self activity that are what defines anarchism as a tradition and not a sect.

So comments about anarchists "claiming" people or partaking in "opportunistic political demos" are either unaware of some of what's just been mentioned (which is understandable in terms of political ideas, demos taking place, etc. and perhaps in terms of context in Greece (still difficult considering current media coverage)) or being purposely cynical and snide.

 

[Tinpot Anto]

A wee 15 yr old boy was shot in the chest by a cop at point blank range. I think that's a bad thing, no matter what he was up to or if he was an evil anarchist, therefore if there is an opportunity to show solidarity with his friends and family in order to add a voice to theirs for the demand for justice then you should support it.

Or is it more important not to be seen associating with unfashionable political groups this weather?

 

[mazzyianne]

Do you really think you can only show solidarity with someone you're 'the same' as?
That's a pretty small group of people (ie.1)

People show solidarity with people all over the world who they have very little in common with, for example some people who worked in Dunnes showed solidarity with black south africans who were living under aparthied by refusing to handle South African fruit n veg.

 

[Cian Nugent]

Do you really think you can only show solidarity with someone you're 'the same' as?
That's a pretty small group of people (ie.1)

People show solidarity with people all over the world who they have very little in common with, for example some people who worked in Dunnes showed solidarity with black south africans who were living under aparthied by refusing to handle South African fruit n veg.

I don't think they have to be the same, just some unifying force, I'm not too sure about the whole thing though.

Just seems like a murdered teenager being put forward primarily as an Anarchist is a little funny.

 

[D0njo]

You're a little funny

C'mon man, the unifying force is that we're all people, and even if we've never met, and even though you might not be an anarchist, I love you, like a brother

 

[Cian Nugent]

You're a little funny

C'mon man, the unifying force is that we're all people, and even if we've never met, and even though you might not be an anarchist, I love you, like a brother

A good point and I agree. BUT, we're not all rushing out to show solidarity with every dead person about. I hear no talk of this:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5197439.ece

This Greek guy apparently had certain political beliefs (which I wouldn't try to denigrate) and was in a supposedly civilised country.

 

[the strange guy]

We can all agree that solidarity and sympathy are different things. An anarchist can
sympathise with a murdered anarchist and show their solidarity because they have
much in common. The fact is that Alexandros has not been proven to be an anarchist,
while many of those who instigated the riots and looting -are- anarchist. So when an
anarchist march has been created in solidarity I have to ask solidarity with who?
Alexandros or the rioters? That is why I feel it is opportunistic, a march with a political
message that may or may not have been a political message this victim felt affiliiated
to. I have sympathy for him, just as I have sympathy for the fella who got shot in
East Wall the other night - but I feel no solidarity with either of them, I have little in
common with the two of them. I don't know how you could find out if anyone who
attended this march are planning to attend another one to show solidarity with your
man in East Wall, but I'd guess not many. Bastard murdering kids may not be singled
out as an enemy of the anarchist utopia, it may not make great album covers or tshirt
slogans, but surely they're as symptomatic of a broken system as bastard murdering
cops. Anarchists love riots. Riot porn. Who else understands this term other than
anarchists and people familiar with anarchists? Showing grief is one thing, but ganging
up to burn down a city while the global black bloc claps and cheers in solidarity from
the online sidelines smacks of acting the fucking bollocks and nothing more.

 

[Shorty]

Solidarity has nothing to do with having things in 'common' with people, 95% of the people I've ever worked with I've had nothing in common with (work is for the most part a place you spend 8 hours a day in a place not of your choosing with people also not of your choosing because you need the money, not cause you like them or have much in common with them beyond them being in the same situation) but that doesn't mean that if one of them were fired or unfairly disciplined I and the other people working with them couldn't take collective action such as a go slow, work to rule or even ballot to strike in solidarity with them. Sure I don't have much in common with most anarchists, it’s not about being best friends it’s about being able to work together non-hierarchically, democratically, etc. and showing solidarity to those in struggle here and elsewhere regardless of borders.

Also, the majority of people taking part in the riots aren't anarchist, there's not tens of thousands of anarchists spread throughout Greece (unfortunately ) and the question you're asking shouldn't be in solidarity with who but with what? The question of whether Alexandros identified or not is neither here nor there, his death was merely the spark. I'm also pretty sure that most of the people taking part couldn't care less about t-shirts or album covers let alone have much idea what you're talking about, and while I'd agree the shooting in East Wall is "symptomatic of a broken system" there's a little but not much the currently rather small amount of anarchists in Dublin can do apart from keep pushing the anarchist ideas of; control of communities by the people who live there and control of the workplace by those who work there, in their own communities and workplaces and work with whatever initiatives take place in East Wall and other communities where this happens.

But well done on this:

Anarchists love riots. Riot porn. Who else understands this term other than
anarchists and people familiar with anarchists? Showing grief is one thing, but ganging
up to burn down a city while the global black bloc claps and cheers in solidarity from
the online sidelines smacks of acting the fucking bollocks and nothing more.

Anarchists don't look to the 'form' of rioting but to the content and context of them, hence why you don't see anarchists celebrating fucking race riots or every time there's riots up north for example, but well done in ironically taking part in the exact same fetishising of form over content of your stereotyped strawman.

 

[Shorty]

It also turns out the cop who shot Alexandros was previously involved in a fascist organisation Golden Dawn (the ones seen working with the cops in Patras).

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/90170

He also had the below testimony to make at his hearing, fuck this scumbag! !ninjaaaa

Parts of the 11-page long testimony of the murderer:


“The deceased and his gang attended the swimming pool of Chalandri in Athens and participated in the violent events that occurred there, injuring citizens and the coach of Olympiakos Club by using various objects, including a crowbar. Following this they joined in with the commonly-seen hordes that gather to attack the offices of the Socialist Party, a customary occurrence in Athens on a Saturday night”.


“As a matter of fact, I have been informed that these youths, while residing in the affluent suburb of Palaio Psychiko, tend to hang out in the area of Eksarhia which they chose as their recreational area together with various sports grounds where they cause trouble, not showing the attitude and personality expected to be seen in a 15-year old teenager”.

“The deceased had been expelled by the Moraitis private school in Athens and changed schools often, a fact proving his deviant behaviour”.

 

[Janer]

Pix to follow.

Do you work in hours, days or weeks?

 

[D0njo]

Parts of the 11-page long testimony of the murderer:


“The deceased and his gang attended the swimming pool of Chalandri in Athens and participated in the violent events that occurred there, injuring citizens and the coach of Olympiakos Club by using various objects, including a crowbar. Following this they joined in with the commonly-seen hordes that gather to attack the offices of the Socialist Party, a customary occurrence in Athens on a Saturday night”.


“As a matter of fact, I have been informed that these youths, while residing in the affluent suburb of Palaio Psychiko, tend to hang out in the area of Eksarhia which they chose as their recreational area together with various sports grounds where they cause trouble, not showing the attitude and personality expected to be seen in a 15-year old teenager”.

“The deceased had been expelled by the Moraitis private school in Athens and changed schools often, a fact proving his deviant behaviour”.

.........................fuck sake

 

[nooleen]

sounds like he was a little bollix and had it coming to him so

 

[the strange guy]

Solidarity has nothing to do with having things in 'common' with people

I disagree. Solidarity has everything to do with having things in common,
namely an interest, an enemy or a goal. Your example of taking action in
the event of a colleague being unfairly fired is solidarity because you share
a common interest - fair working conditions.

I said earlier that while I felt sympathy for the young fella, I felt no
solidarity - I know nothing about him. I don't see the point in discussing the
differences between the word 'Solidarity' and 'Sympathy'. They are different
words with different meanings! The Workers Sympathy Movement doesn't
have the same ring to it, but it might be more appropriate!

Also, the majority of people taking part in the riots aren't anarchist, there's not tens of thousands of anarchists spread throughout Greece (unfortunately ) and the question you're asking shouldn't be in solidarity with who but with what?

Not with who, but with what? Ok, so we'll forget about the murdered boy
who the Greek anarchists have claimed unfairly as their martyr and march
instead for their cause? A cause, which as you admit, is not supported by
the majority of the people who are involved in the riots? Riots which aren't
supported by the majority of the population? Ironically, the majority of the
people is who rioters think they are fighting for! How is this murder not
being used as anarchist propaganda? How can this march not be seen as
opportunistic? I do not support it for all of these reasons.

...I'd agree the shooting in East Wall is "symptomatic of a broken system" there's a little but not much the currently rather small amount of anarchists in Dublin can do apart from keep pushing the anarchist ideas...

Do you not think that perhaps marching in solidarity with a local community
and in sympathy with the family of a local man would do more to 'push' the
anarchist cause rather than protesting outside an embassy about an event
that happened thousands of kilometres away? The East Wall murderer was
the same age as the boy murdered in Athens. It's an interesting parallel.

Anarchists don't look to the 'form' of rioting but to the content and context of them, hence why you don't see anarchists celebrating fucking race riots or every time there's riots up north for example, but well done in ironically taking part in the exact same fetishising of form over content of your stereotyped strawman.

The content and context of rioting is what is important, not the form..? Are
you critiquing rioting as art, reclassifying violence as a manifestation of
ideas or talking out of your arse? I would have thought anarchists wouldn't
support fucking race riots because they're fucking race riots. Similarly, riots
up North have little in common with any anarchist ideals. Can you,
personally, support riots that affect the majority of people negatively,
scares them and angers them? Does anyone else reading this support them?
Fighting an injustice or fucking shit up, what do you all feel accurately
describes what is going on in Greece?

I'm not trying to change anybody's minds about anything. I'm just
expressing how I feel about what I see as 'anti'-politicians seizing a boy's
image and shaping him into opportunistic propaganda before using it as an
excuse to 'spark', promote and glorify violence that affects millions of
people. All I see is a tragic and injust murder of a child by a cunt in state
uniform.

 

[killy kill]

oof! where's the soli for this poor shade?

 

[Janer]

That is some picture, pity about the shutterspeed.

 

[Shorty]

I disagree. Solidarity has everything to do with having things in common,
namely an interest, an enemy or a goal. Your example of taking action in
the event of a colleague being unfairly fired is solidarity because you share
a common interest - fair working conditions.

So what has it got to do with what, who or how this kid identified with? The argument you've been making so far, remember?
Most of the solidarity protests have been in solidarity with what's happening and taking place in Greece, the occupations, assemblies, general strike, the fighting with a corrupt and brutal police force and with the fact a teenage boy was murdered by police.

Not with who, but with what? Ok, so we'll forget about the murdered boy who the Greek anarchists have claimed unfairly as their martyr and march instead for their cause? A cause, which as you admit, is not supported by the majority of the people who are involved in the riots? Riots which aren't supported by the majority of the population? Ironically, the majority of the people is who rioters think they are fighting for!

What fucking cause are they out there fighting for? While ideas are important, the point is what's happening there isn't purely about tens of thousands of people who all identify as anarchists out fighting the cops and burning shit.
Its the context that you seem to be ignoring yet even the mainstream press seem to be able to recognise. The struggle(s) and tendencies of self activity and self organisation that are taking place there.
The anger and a people fighting both their government and police force, is significant.

Although, fighting 'for' people, hmmm, a mercenary anarchist army? Might be a good way of bringing in a bit of extra cash.

Btw, I'd say the fact the despite calls by politicians 2.5 million people (over half the greek work force) still took part in a general strike and associated protests as a sign of some level of support, just cause not everybody is out throwing molotovs at cops isn't a sign of no support. But maybe we'll wait for that anarchist x-factor phone in vote to decide the majority.

Do you not think that perhaps marching in solidarity with a local community
and in sympathy with the family of a local man would do more to 'push' the
anarchist cause rather than protesting outside an embassy about an event
that happened thousands of kilometres away? The East Wall murderer was
the same age as the boy murdered in Athens. It's an interesting parallel.

Yeah, amongst other things such as more control over and involvement in their own community by the community there, it may help. Its not like protesting outside the greek embassy is the only thing that anarchists in Dublin and Ireland are doing at the moment, that they aren't involved in other groups and campaigns or that anarchism here isn't tiny with little to no history or tradition. But as of right now there aren't mass occupations, assemblies and burning barricades taking place in East Wall, though some other form of iniative by people there may possibly happen in the near future and I'm sure those anarchists living in East Wall will get involved in it.

The content and context of rioting is what is important, not the form..? Are
you critiquing rioting as art, reclassifying violence as a manifestation of
ideas or talking out of your arse?

I'm not the one going on about riot porn (or is it just the flickering images on the screen ...), t-shirts and album covers.

Fighting an injustice or fucking shit up ...?

Yes!

I can't wait til Friday (thumped christmas party), all of this pent up frustration is sooo getting taken out on you, in a sexual, loving and tender way of course. :heart: