Should local bands play for free? (3 Viewers)

[ann post]

have you run gigs in ireland milanpanic?? if so can i play at them??

 

[ann post]

oh, RE: thread title.

the dole.

 

[MilanPan!c]

have you run gigs in ireland milanpanic?? if so can i play at them??

No sir, but I'm starting to wonder why not.

Seems like it might be worth trying.

 

[JohnnyRaz]

if most venues werent chancers and were happy to have a room full of drinkers in lieu of a rental fee then more bands would get paid.

 

[error type 11]

if most venues werent chancers and were happy to have a room full of drinkers in lieu of a rental fee then more bands would get paid.

I agree with this, I pay say 300 euro plus 200 euro for your venue and sound engineer for the night, I ram the venue solid, say with 250 people (these are all hypotheticals) and yet come out only we'll say 200 euro up after paying headline act/ international act whatever. The 250 people you brought doesnt mean that the venue owner comes up and says 'jaysus, that was bleeding rammed, we'll forget the rental fee there, I made a packet on the bar tonight' but if 25 people turned up and you lost yer shirt you'd still be expected to pay the rentasl fees. The promoter seems to take all the riska and few of the benefits in this situatuion. If someone loses their shirt a few times they would become unwilling to keep it up as you get the beating yer head against a brivk wall feeling when you cant afford to feed yerself cos the gig last week went tits up

 

[MilanPan!c]

I agree with this, I pay say 300 euro plus 200 euro for your venue and sound engineer for the night, I ram the venue solid, say with 250 people (these are all hypotheticals) and yet come out only we'll say 200 euro up after paying headline act/ international act whatever. The 250 people you brought doesnt mean that the venue owner comes up and says 'jaysus, that was bleeding rammed, we'll forget the rental fee there, I made a packet on the bar tonight' but if 25 people turned up and you lost yer shirt you'd still be expected to pay the rentasl fees. The promoter seems to take all the riska and few of the benefits in this situatuion. If someone loses their shirt a few times they would become unwilling to keep it up as you get the beating yer head against a brivk wall feeling when you cant afford to feed yerself cos the gig last week went tits up

This is kinda what I mean. Venues are kinda taking the piss with the whole, "bands ALWAYS share the risk, but only occasionally the profit" gimmick.

 

[hugh]

This is kinda what I mean. Venues are kinda taking the piss with the whole, "bands ALWAYS share the risk, but only occasionally the profit" gimmick.

But ... but .... I don't get this. How are bands/promoters only "occasionally" getting the profit? If you fill the place you make a profit. If you don't you make a loss. If you don't make a profit on a full venue then you have miscalculated your costs, and probably should not have tried to put that particular gig on in that particular venue. Error Type 11 is bemoaning the fact that the venue would never forgo or reduce their rental fee if not enough people turn up. But, if they were to do that, then you might reasonable expect them to have a case for raising it if more people than expected turn up, and no-one wants that.

Again, I don't think the flat rental fee system is the problem here. Now, you might argue that the flat rental fees are much too high and in that case I would say sure, that may well be the case ....

 

[MilanPan!c]

Here's why:

Bands are employees, if a pub puts on a CD it pays, if it turn on the radio it pays, even if no one is in the pub.

The sound guy gets paid, no matter the draw.

The venue gets paid, no matter the draw.

The only one that worries about the draw is the band.

And let's be honest, most gigs don't "make" a band a huge number of fans, they don't get the band signed and they don't get the band radio play.

They do entertain the room and they do sell beer.

I'm just saying, venues can't say to the bar guy, "sorry we can't pay you tonight, hardly anyone bought a drink".

On top of that, if venues HAD to pay bands, they'd find more creative ways to bring crowds... and let's face it, they have the resources to advertise, not bands.



Really though, the best argument is simple:

Bands get paid in the US (and from what I've experienced, the UK). BAnds get paid in Arkansas.

If Little Rock Arkansas can afford to pay bands, Dublin can.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Here's why:

Bands are employees, if a pub puts on a CD it pays, if it turn on the radio it pays, even if no one is in the pub.

The sound guy gets paid, no matter the draw.

The venue gets paid, no matter the draw.

The only one that worries about the draw is the band.

And let's be honest, most gigs don't "make" a band a huge number of fans, they don't get the band signed and they don't get the band radio play.

They do entertain the room and they do sell beer.

I'm just saying, venues can't say to the bar guy, "sorry we can't pay you tonight, hardly anyone bought a drink".

On top of that, if venues HAD to pay bands, they'd find more creative ways to bring crowds... and let's face it, they have the resources to advertise, not bands.

Does this mean that the promotor or the venue should have a say in, for example, the setlist then? After all, the band are their employees

 

[ann post]

also, if you dont like playing for free in little rock you can drive to the next state and find a place that pays. if you dont like doing it in ireland, you can drive into the sea.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Life my ass, motherfucker!
This is a business, and you're
not too far gone to see that.

I've told you this before.
You're not pulling them in
like you used to. The only
person who gives a fuck about
your music is yourself.


I book three acts -- I can't afford four. What would you do in my position?

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

"If Little Rock Arkansas can afford to pay bands, Dublin can. "



So,what's the plan?

 

[MilanPan!c]

Does this mean that the promoter or the venue should have a say in, for example, the setlist then? After all, the band are their employees

That's just silly.

Venues hire bands to play original material. That's their job.

If a venue (in the States say) hates your material, or doesn't think you can draw, it doesn't HAVE to give you a slot.


I'm not sure why you guys think a system which is different in a BAD way needs to be defended?

Or is this devil's advocating?

 

[MilanPan!c]

well... there's MULTIPLE venues that pay in Little Rock, which is tiny, even by Dublin standards.

and, to be fair, the next city of any size is Memphis, which is a two hour drive, if you're lucky, or Dallas, which is at least six.

In the states, it's not about the draw (though you'd better if you want to play frequently/on good nights/with good bands) it's about the mindset.

Bands work, so they get paid.

Like everyone else working that night.

 

[MilanPan!c]

Life my ass, motherfucker!

I book three acts -- I can't afford four. What would you do in my position?

I don't understand the question...

 

[ann post]

I'm not sure why you guys think a system which is different in a BAD way needs to be defended?

Or is this devil's advocating?

not on my behalf, i'm not defending either, i'm just talking from about 10/11 years gigging in dublin and the rest of the country, running gigs in my own town and being involved in them, i.e. i'm only giving insights into reality.

defending ≠ explaining reality.

 

[MilanPan!c]

"If Little Rock Arkansas can afford to pay bands, Dublin can. "



So,what's the plan?

Venues should solicit demos.

Venues should book bands.

Venues and bands should promote gigs.

Venues should pay bands.

That's the entire plan in the states... including Arkansas.

 

[MilanPan!c]

not on my behalf, i'm not defending either, i'm just talking from about 10/11 years gigging in dublin and the rest of the country, running gigs in my own town and being involved in them, i.e. i'm only giving insights into reality.

defending ≠ explaining reality.

hahaha... I kinda figured that... where'd you get the not equals? I always just !=

...

I'm only trying to advocate a system that works in thousands of venues and under which a LOT more bands make SOME money.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Or is this devil's advocating?

more or less, I wouldn't really disagree with what you're saying

I don't understand the question...

the correct answer is to immediately write When Doves Cry

 

[MilanPan!c]

more or less



the correct answer is to immediately write When Doves Cry

Prince fans....sigh....