Recording an album...creative flow? (1 Viewer)

[Spartak]

Hi all,

Long time lurker here.

Ive been writing and recording for years and its occurred to me lately that I have very little to show for it. A few studio recordings here and there with various bands I was in and some tunes/ideas from messing around at home.

A good friend of mine has spent the best part of a year recording an album at great expense (time and money). I became inspired to do the same having seen the fruits of his labours.

I was impressed not only with the material, (which of course is subjective and may not be to everybody's taste) but more-so how it acted as a diary of sorts for the last few years of his life.

I love the idea of having a full project which acts as a snapshot of my life.

Having the luxury of a decent home setup I can record myself to a decent standard. Ideas are free flowing which is great.
I am at a loss however as how to undertake the next stage of the process. I have a bunch of ideas but no flow.

I want the album to tell a story from start to finish. A jumble of different sounding tracks is the track Im headed for now.

So my question is this; do any of you who have gone through this have any advice as to the next stage of the creative process. How do I form my ideas into a framework for a record.
Is it a matter of just pure perseverance?
Should I write 30+ full songs or decide early on what ideas to run with and see it out that way?

As I said, ideas, writing and recording are not a problem, its just the process of organizing these to form the idea that's in my head.

Apologies for the long post, but anyone who managed to read it all Id love to hear their experiences.

This project is mainly for my own enjoyment but I do intend on gigging it during next year. It's electronic music (Vitalic/Battles/Holy F*ck style)

Thanks.

 

[MDR]

Coming up with ideas is just the first part of the creative processes; processing, editing and organising the ideas is the next stage and that depends of your creative judgement.

Over the years I have found that the shape of an album sort of emerges after a while. If that's not happening, then maybe the project just isn't ripe yet.

My approach is to take one idea and work it for a long time rather than trying to come up with a lot of different ideas and whittling it down. There can be a temptation just to vomit up a whole load of music and try and make sense of it afterwards, but it might be better to have a more robust triage system at the early stages and to filter out lesser ideas. After a year's work it's better to have one amazing song that 30 half started ideas.

 

[Anthony]

After a year's work it's better to have one amazing song that 30 half started ideas.

I'll try not to take that personally Ro.
!

 

[snakybus]

You have to ask yourself, why do you want to tell a story from start to finish? Next Groom album is a song arc (is that even a term?) of sorts. When I initially had the idea it was all well and good but I really had to dive in and figure out why I wanted that, and eventually I did. Took a while though, and we went down lots of blind alleys along the way.

 

[Moods For Mallards]

When I made my first album, I found that the editing/decision-making process was a very practical one. Or at least, that's the route I took. By that, I mean that I kept making playlists of what I had recorded to see what songs worked well one after the other and to imagine the gaps. I came up with mental pictures of what kind of thing I would like to hear at various points and tried to achieve that. Then I'd listen to what I'd done and decide again. 'Twas iterative.
This works very well when you're recording yourself at home, because you have instant results. It is perfect for a trial-and-error process and for having the means to fill the gaps with your imaginings.

 

[Spartak]

Thanks for the replies.

Iterative process is right. I feel I'm in one now however I think my time could be used better.

I have found that the shape of an album sort of emerges after a while.

I know what you mean by this this however in the case of this project I had hoped to sculpt idea I had to fit around the concept which is in my head. Ive learned its a tricky thing to do.

Im not getting discouraged in the least. Im enjoying the whole process. Just wanted to know if any of you experienced this before.

Keep the replies coming folks!

 

[ann post]

with big conceptual arty things, very often being willing to drop the central core idea that started the ball rolling might be the thing that gets it done. tree's dont look like seeds etc.

so did yr mate actually deliberately write a diary type album, or did it just turn out that way?? cos it mightnt be the best idea just to try to capture something that someone else did subconsciously and tame it.

and if you just keep recording all the time it will always be a snapshot of your life.

 

[snakybus]

Ann Post, you speak the truth.

 

[Pantone247]

first thing I decide is how many discs the album is going to be

these days I rarely doing anything under a triple LP

next is to decide which song is going to fill the entirty of side 4

then work backwards from there...

hope this helps!

 

[Pantone247]

also if you are unsure of a song, ask yourself these three questions

"will I be able to make interesting observations about this song on a Classics Album DVD?"

"will I have an interesting anecdote to tell while I play with the faders on a Classic Albums DVD?"

"is there an interesting vocal harmony bit I'll be able to 'solo', when I'm making my Classics Albums DVD, to help hit home to the viewer how talented I am?"

 

[Pantone247]

also on a final note I always remember a quote from Moby, asked when he knew a track was finished, he said "when I press play, lean back, close my eyes and can instantly see the product I'm going to licence the song for, that's when I know I've hit pay dirt"

 

[pissypants]

This thread was made for red_dog. Where is he??

 

[Spartak]

with big conceptual arty things, very often being willing to drop the central core idea that started the ball rolling might be the thing that gets it done. tree's dont look like seeds etc.

so did yr mate actually deliberately write a diary type album, or did it just turn out that way?? cos it mightnt be the best idea just to try to capture something that someone else did subconsciously and tame it.

Good post.

It wasnt a deleberate thing he went for, just a vibe I got off it.

It wasnt a goal of mine in this project but rater a side effect of the work I put into it.

For me there's a huge difference between a collection of good songs and an album. The songs and ideas are there, its just fitting them together that Im stuck at. Maybe I just need to persevere and Ill hit on it eventually.



Edit:

Also, thanks for the input pantone. Some food for though there

Dont think Ill have to worry about classic albums compilations.

Think Ill stick to the 10/11 track format I have in mind. Ill save the "4 disc vinyl-classic compilation-sell out-money maker" for my next project.

 

[RED(tape)MENACE]

Whatever you do, don't make it too fucking long.
I'm gonna need a 5-page essay on why your record needs to be ONE SECOND longer than 45 minutes.

 

[São Paulo Punk]

also if you are unsure of a song, ask yourself these three questions

"will I be able to make interesting observations about this song on a Classics Album DVD?"

"will I have an interesting anecdote to tell while I play with the faders on a Classic Albums DVD?"

"is there an interesting vocal harmony bit I'll be able to 'solo', when I'm making my Classics Albums DVD, to help hit home to the viewer how talented I am?"

"could I perhaps conduct the interview with a yamaha acoustic guitar rested on my lap so that I could spontaneously revisit that interesting guitar lick I once wrote which, to my own 'humble' surprise, went on to become one of the longest songs to hold the the no.11 spot in the Netherlands Top 20 Charts in 1983..."

Seriously though....

There's a book with about 30 or more interviews (L. Cohen, Dylan, Paul Simon, Los Lobos(!) Neil Young, Madonna...) on songwriting that I cannot recommend enough: It's by a guy called Paul Zollo and it's called 'Songwriters on Songwriting'. Ask Santa for it now!

Some great interviews in it, some not so great, but all in all its a great way of seeing how, when it comes to writing a song or an album, a lyric or a melody, no one really knows for sure what they're doing or how they're doing it. It's very encouraging stuff.

 

[snakybus]

I heard Paul Simon say once that when he comes up with a first line for a song he imagines it to have a sort of \/ shape (he used his hands, that's supposed to indicate something expanding from the small to the large). In other words, he doesn't know what it will lead to, but it has to be a line that has numerous possibilities, that makes you ask sort of, ooh what's this about.

 

[Spartak]

You mean like this?

 

[Pantone247]

There's a book with about 30 or more interviews (L. Cohen, Dylan, Paul Simon, Los Lobos(!) Neil Young, Madonna...) on songwriting that I cannot recommend enough: It's by a guy called Paul Zollo and it's called 'Songwriters on Songwriting'. Ask Santa for it now!

brilliant book

the Randy Newman interview, and I'm no huge fan of his, is great

also good are the old codgers at the start, the brill building sort of guys, one whom complains too many people are writing songs about their "feelings"; and sites 'Fly Me To The Moon' and it's humourous word play as example of what song writers should strive for...

 

[mark]

i'm a big supported of the '10 songs, or half an hour, or whichever comes first' idea.

alas, none of the pircks i play in bands with aggree.

 

[kevin gallen]

Just ordered it. sounds really good.

brilliant book

the Randy Newman interview, and I'm no huge fan of his, is great

also good are the old codgers at the start, the brill building sort of guys, one whom complains too many people are writing songs about their "feelings"; and sites 'Fly Me To The Moon' and it's humourous word play as example of what song writers should strive for...